Dáil debates
Wednesday, 26 October 2005
Order of Business.
11:00 am
Bertie Ahern (Dublin Central, Fianna Fail)
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It is proposed to take No. 17, the Criminal Justice Bill 2004 — Second Stage (resumed); No. 16, the Employment Permits Bill 2005 — Second Stage (resumed); and No. 18, the Parental Leave (Amendment) Bill 2004 [Seanad] — Second Stage (resumed). Private Members' business shall be No. 44, motion re delivery of health services (resumed) to conclude at 8.30 p.m.
Rory O'Hanlon (Cavan-Monaghan, Ceann Comhairle)
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There are no proposals to put to the House.
Enda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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The Taoiseach might let me know when he finds out the answer to the question raised last week about the implementation of sections of the Children Act, particularly section 111 and others. I raised the matter previously on a number of occasions dealing with issues related to child protection.
It has been well signalled that the Government is to announce shortly the be all and end all of transport plans. Will the Taoiseach agree that such a plan should be announced to the Dáil first, unlike what happened with the spatial strategy which was announced in the Royal Hospital, Kilmainham? That strategy was never discussed subsequently in this House.
Bernard Durkan (Kildare North, Fine Gael)
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This time it is a bigger turf.
Rory O'Hanlon (Cavan-Monaghan, Ceann Comhairle)
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Does the Deputy have a question that is appropriate to the Order of Business?
Enda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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It is a major Government plan dealing with infrastructure.
Rory O'Hanlon (Cavan-Monaghan, Ceann Comhairle)
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We cannot discuss such plans on the Order of Business.
Enda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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We have been awaiting the Minister of State's proposals for Dáil reform for quite some time. When the Government is making major announcements of national importance, they should be announced in this House first.
Rory O'Hanlon (Cavan-Monaghan, Ceann Comhairle)
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The Deputy has made his point.
Enda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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If the Government wants to make public relations displays afterwards — and the Minister, Deputy Roche, is very much into that — it can feel free to do so.
Dick Roche (Wicklow, Fianna Fail)
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I have not made a single announcement yet. Deputy Kenny will be the first to know. I will give him a copy.
Jim O'Keeffe (Cork South West, Fine Gael)
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The Minister will do anything for a headline.
Bertie Ahern (Dublin Central, Fianna Fail)
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Whenever the Minister makes an announcement I am sure questions can be tabled and he is answerable to the House on the issues.
Enda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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He has been very kind of late but this is the €20 billion question.
Bernard Durkan (Kildare North, Fine Gael)
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The next tunnel will be higher.
Bertie Ahern (Dublin Central, Fianna Fail)
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Tunnels all over Europe are four metres high.
Bernard Durkan (Kildare North, Fine Gael)
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Drivers do not have to let the air out of their tyres to get through them.
Bertie Ahern (Dublin Central, Fianna Fail)
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We should not be allowing high trucks into this country, wrecking the place.
Pat Rabbitte (Dublin South West, Labour)
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The Minister of State, Deputy Callely, will have no problem getting through then.
Will the Taoiseach instruct the Government Chief Whip as soon as possible to facilitate a debate on the Ferns report? If I understood correctly this morning, the Government is not resiling from the commitment to have an inquiry into the Dublin archdiocese on the same issues.
Bertie Ahern (Dublin Central, Fianna Fail)
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In this case, it would be appropriate to have time for a debate. If the Whips can work out a suitable time for it, I would certainly support that. As I said this morning, not alone do we have to deal with the Dublin issue, but we also have to examine the remit and manner of dealing with some other issues. We have not yet worked out how that should take place. Based on Mr. Justice Murphy's report, we must try to construct how best to do that.
Rory O'Hanlon (Cavan-Monaghan, Ceann Comhairle)
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We cannot re-open the debate that Deputy Rabbitte had during leaders' questions.
Rory O'Hanlon (Cavan-Monaghan, Ceann Comhairle)
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The question has already been answered.
Pat Rabbitte (Dublin South West, Labour)
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I accept the Taoiseach's reply and I welcome the fact the House will have an opportunity to debate the Ferns report as early as possible. However, I still get the impression that the Government is seeking to resile——
Bertie Ahern (Dublin Central, Fianna Fail)
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The Government is not.
Rory O'Hanlon (Cavan-Monaghan, Ceann Comhairle)
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That does not arise at this stage.
Brendan HowlinRory O'Hanlon (Cavan-Monaghan, Ceann Comhairle)
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That matter was raised by Deputy Kenny during leaders' questions this morning and it is not appropriate to continue the discussion on it at this stage.
Trevor Sargent (Dublin North, Green Party)
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The Green Party also welcomes the opportunity of having a debate on the Ferns report and its wider implications. I wish to ask a question on promised legislation in this respect. Politically, there is a need for the register of persons who are considered unsafe to work with children to be fast-tracked, notwithstanding the difficulties concerning institutions in the North, given that it has been fast-tracked there.
Rory O'Hanlon (Cavan-Monaghan, Ceann Comhairle)
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Is legislation promised?
Trevor Sargent (Dublin North, Green Party)
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There is no point in the peace process replacing one kind of terror if we are going to get another kind of terror.
Rory O'Hanlon (Cavan-Monaghan, Ceann Comhairle)
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We cannot have a debate on what might be in the legislation. I call the Taoiseach.
Trevor Sargent (Dublin North, Green Party)
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We need to move on it.
Bertie Ahern (Dublin Central, Fianna Fail)
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I will see what we can do on that. The Deputy has a point and we should try to move it on.
Olwyn Enright (Laois-Offaly, Fine Gael)
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In light of the Ferns report yesterday and the Taoiseach's admission today that child abuse is not limited to any particular group, will he introduce amending legislation for the Protection of Persons Reporting Child Abuse Act 1998 and the Sex Offenders Act 2001?
Is the Taoiseach aware of a lady who has been protesting about the redress board outside Leinster House since last Thursday? Will another schedule of additional institutions be introduced? Will the Taoiseach ask somebody to meet with that woman on his behalf?
Jan O'Sullivan (Limerick East, Labour)
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For the past year, we have been getting the same answer to questions on the register of persons considered unsafe to work with children. I hope the Taoiseach will provide a different answer next week.
We have all received correspondence concerning the Morning Star mother and baby home and a number of other institutions that still have not been included under the schedule of secondary legislation. The Minister has indicated that the list we have is the final one. I urge the Taoiseach, however, to consider adding other institutions to the list, including the Morning Star mother and baby home. A genuine case has been made to include other institutions in the schedule also.
Rory O'Hanlon (Cavan-Monaghan, Ceann Comhairle)
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The Deputy has made her point.
Bertie Ahern (Dublin Central, Fianna Fail)
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I will pass on the Deputy's comments to the Minister.
Caoimhghín Ó Caoláin (Cavan-Monaghan, Sinn Fein)
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I have questions on two items of legislation. The alcohol products (control of advertising, sponsorship and marketing practices) sales promotions Bill was to have been published this year according to the previous legislative programme, but it does not appear on the current programme. Will the Taoiseach advise what is the status of that legislation? Why does it no longer appear on the legislative programme for this session?
The hepatitis C and HIV compensation tribunal (amendment) Bill has been held back from the earlier promised publication date and is now expected in this autumn session. Will the Taoiseach confirm that will actually happen?
Bertie Ahern (Dublin Central, Fianna Fail)
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The hepatitis C legislation is scheduled for this session.
As regards the alcohol products (control of advertising, sponsorship and marketing practices) sales promotions Bill, voluntary agreements have been reached with the advertising industry. Therefore, the Department wishes to hold off on the introduction of this legislation pending the outcome of these voluntary agreements to see how effective they are.
Caoimhghín Ó Caoláin (Cavan-Monaghan, Sinn Fein)
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What about the legislation?
Bertie Ahern (Dublin Central, Fianna Fail)
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If the voluntary agreements do not work, the legislation will be introduced. However, it would be better to try to get voluntary agreement on the matter. It would be far more effective.
Bernard Durkan (Kildare North, Fine Gael)
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In view of the rapidly deteriorating situation in An Post, would the Taoiseach be prepared either to re-introduce the postal services (miscellaneous provisions) Bill to the Order Paper, or alternatively arrange for a debate during Government time, given the likelihood of a complete cessation of postal services?
Rory O'Hanlon (Cavan-Monaghan, Ceann Comhairle)
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Is legislation promised?
Bernard Durkan (Kildare North, Fine Gael)
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This issue has been awaiting resolution for a long time.
Rory O'Hanlon (Cavan-Monaghan, Ceann Comhairle)
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That issue was raised yesterday.
Bernard Durkan (Kildare North, Fine Gael)
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It concerns promised legislation.
Rory O'Hanlon (Cavan-Monaghan, Ceann Comhairle)
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It was raised during leaders' questions yesterday.
Bernard Durkan (Kildare North, Fine Gael)
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It was also promised legislation, however.
Tommy Broughan (Dublin North East, Labour)
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Time is getting short. We have less than ten days to go to a possible national postal strike.
Rory O'Hanlon (Cavan-Monaghan, Ceann Comhairle)
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Does the Deputy have a question appropriate to the Order of Business?
Tommy Broughan (Dublin North East, Labour)
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The question appropriate to the Order of Business is that I watched the Taoiseach battling through——
Rory O'Hanlon (Cavan-Monaghan, Ceann Comhairle)
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That does not arise on the Order of Business. I call the Taoiseach concerning Deputy Durkan's question on legislation.
Tommy Broughan (Dublin North East, Labour)
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I am asking a question on legislation — the postal services (miscellaneous provisions) Bill — and on allowing time for a debate.
Bernard Durkan (Kildare North, Fine Gael)
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Surely it is a serious issue.
Rory O'Hanlon (Cavan-Monaghan, Ceann Comhairle)
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Of course it is, but it should be raised in a proper way.
Bernard Durkan (Kildare North, Fine Gael)
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It was raised in a proper manner.
Rory O'Hanlon (Cavan-Monaghan, Ceann Comhairle)
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It was raised yesterday by Deputy Joe Higgins.
Bernard Durkan (Kildare North, Fine Gael)
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The situation is worse today.
Tommy Broughan (Dublin North East, Labour)
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I am asking the Leader of the House if he will provide time to debate this important issue.
Rory O'Hanlon (Cavan-Monaghan, Ceann Comhairle)
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Is time promised in the House? The matter was debated yesterday.
Tommy Broughan (Dublin North East, Labour)
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The Taoiseach is the Leader of the House and can provide time if he wants to.
Rory O'Hanlon (Cavan-Monaghan, Ceann Comhairle)
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Is a debate promised?
Bernard Durkan (Kildare North, Fine Gael)
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Sadly, the Taoiseach has nothing to say.
Rory O'Hanlon (Cavan-Monaghan, Ceann Comhairle)
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I call Deputy Costello.
Bernard Durkan (Kildare North, Fine Gael)
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The postal services do not mean anything.
Tommy Broughan (Dublin North East, Labour)
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Not to this Government.
Joe Costello (Dublin Central, Labour)
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The Minister for Justice, Equality and Law Reform was quick off the mark on his favourite radio programme this morning, discussing with Pat Kenny what he would do with legislation arising from the Ferns scandal.
Rory O'Hanlon (Cavan-Monaghan, Ceann Comhairle)
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Does the Deputy have a question on promised legislation?
Pat Rabbitte (Dublin South West, Labour)
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The Michael McDowell slot.
Joe Costello (Dublin Central, Labour)
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Yes, it is the Michael McDowell slot.
Conor Lenihan (Dublin South West, Fianna Fail)
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Deputy Costello has had a fair few slots himself.
12:00 pm
Joe Costello (Dublin Central, Labour)
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The Minister is on radio with Pat Kenny but he is not here in the Dáil when he is needed. The commission of investigations legislation was put through the House two years ago and we delayed instituting investigations into the Dublin archdiocese and other sex abuse scandals until that legislation was passed. Why is the Minister for Justice, Equality and Law Reform not using that legislation, which was passed specifically for that purpose?
Rory O'Hanlon (Cavan-Monaghan, Ceann Comhairle)
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The Deputy should submit a question to the Minister for Justice, Equality and Law Reform.
Joe Costello (Dublin Central, Labour)
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The Minister did not make one mention of the specific legislation.
Rory O'Hanlon (Cavan-Monaghan, Ceann Comhairle)
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I call Deputy Gogarty.
Joe Costello (Dublin Central, Labour)
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Will the Taoiseach use this legislation, which was passed specifically for this purpose? Investigations were delayed into sex scandals in other dioceses until that legislation was put through.
Rory O'Hanlon (Cavan-Monaghan, Ceann Comhairle)
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That does not arise on the Order of Business. The Deputy is being repetitive. I call Deputy Gogarty.
Rory O'Hanlon (Cavan-Monaghan, Ceann Comhairle)
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Yes it is, but it is one for the Minister for Justice, Equality and Law Reform. I suggest the Deputy should submit a question to that Minister.
Joe Costello (Dublin Central, Labour)
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No. The Taoiseach has to answer for the Minister for Justice, Equality and Law Reform who is not here.
Bernard Durkan (Kildare North, Fine Gael)
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He is never here when he is needed.
Rory O'Hanlon (Cavan-Monaghan, Ceann Comhairle)
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No. This is not omnibus question time.
Joe Costello (Dublin Central, Labour)
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My question is about legislation. Will this legislation be used for the purpose for which it was intended?
Rory O'Hanlon (Cavan-Monaghan, Ceann Comhairle)
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That is a question for the Minister for Justice, Equality and Law Reform. I call Deputy Gogarty.
Joe Costello (Dublin Central, Labour)
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I will put the question in a different way. Is the legislation to be appealed since the Minister for Justice, Equality and Law Reform gave no indication that the existing legislation was adequate?
Rory O'Hanlon (Cavan-Monaghan, Ceann Comhairle)
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Is any change to the legislation promised?
Bertie Ahern (Dublin Central, Fianna Fail)
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The relevant legislation is enacted.
Joe Costello (Dublin Central, Labour)
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It is enacted but will it be used?
Paul Gogarty (Dublin Mid West, Green Party)
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I concur with the statements made by Deputies Sargent, Enright and O'Sullivan. I beg the indulgence of the Ceann Comhairle, before I ask about promised legislation——
Rory O'Hanlon (Cavan-Monaghan, Ceann Comhairle)
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There is no indulgence from the Ceann Comhairle. I cannot treat Deputy Gogarty any differently from the other Deputies.
Paul Gogarty (Dublin Mid West, Green Party)
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Given the precedents, can I ask for a correction——
Rory O'Hanlon (Cavan-Monaghan, Ceann Comhairle)
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The Ceann Comhairle has to implement the Standing Order that is in front of him.
Paul Gogarty (Dublin Mid West, Green Party)
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I ask that a correction would be made to the record of this House. During the Order of Business on 13 October this year I asked the Tánaiste if any legislation was planned in regard to refundable deposits on bottles and cans. During her reply she stated that this would be illegal under the packaging directive. However, in a reply, the Minister from the Environment, Heritage and Local Government, Deputy Roche, stated that article 15 of Directive 94/62/EC sets out that member states can adopt measures such as refundable deposits and it is up to the Government to decide if it is too costly. Can we correct the record? The Tánaiste erroneously misled the House and this should be written into the record.
Bertie Ahern (Dublin Central, Fianna Fail)
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I do not know the details. I will have to check it.
Paul Gogarty (Dublin Mid West, Green Party)
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Given the number of scams in the country, when will we see the introduction of the Charities Regulation Bill?
Bertie Ahern (Dublin Central, Fianna Fail)
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The charities legislation is being drafted. It is an extensive Bill. I hope it will be ready next year.
Trevor Sargent (Dublin North, Green Party)
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It has been promised since 1984.
Seymour Crawford (Cavan-Monaghan, Fine Gael)
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In light of the serious delay with the M3 motorway and all the implications that has for the north west, when will the Planning and Development (Strategic National Infrastructure) Bill and the roads (miscellaneous) Bill be brought before the House?
Bertie Ahern (Dublin Central, Fianna Fail)
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The planning and development Bill will come to the House next year. The roads Bill will also come to the House next year.
Joan Burton (Dublin West, Labour)
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The Taoiseach is very welcome this weekend in Dublin West. Does he propose to come by bus and how long——
Rory O'Hanlon (Cavan-Monaghan, Ceann Comhairle)
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That does not arise on the Order of Business.
Rory O'Hanlon (Cavan-Monaghan, Ceann Comhairle)
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I call Deputy Timmins.
Joan Burton (Dublin West, Labour)
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The Ceann Comhairle allowed great latitude to the male Deputies on this side of the House.
Rory O'Hanlon (Cavan-Monaghan, Ceann Comhairle)
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Sorry, Deputy.
Joan Burton (Dublin West, Labour)
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Could I enjoy a similar consideration from the Ceann Comhairle?
Rory O'Hanlon (Cavan-Monaghan, Ceann Comhairle)
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How the Taoiseach travels around Dublin West is not a matter for the Order of Business. I call Deputy Timmins.
Joan Burton (Dublin West, Labour)
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I want to ask about the provision of buses, the public transport commission Bill and the 50 buses that are missing from Dublin West.
Joan Burton (Dublin West, Labour)
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Are the buses coming next year?
Pat Rabbitte (Dublin South West, Labour)
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Fifty buses missing in one constituency? It would never have happened under Deputy Brennan.
Joan Burton (Dublin West, Labour)
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Perhaps the Taoiseach will come on one of the missing buses.
Joe Costello (Dublin Central, Labour)
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Will they all arrive at the same time?
Bernard Durkan (Kildare North, Fine Gael)
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The Government cannot miss all the time.
Dermot Ahern (Louth, Fianna Fail)
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We got double-deckers instead.
Rory O'Hanlon (Cavan-Monaghan, Ceann Comhairle)
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Deputy Burton should allow the Taoiseach to answer her question.
Joan Burton (Dublin West, Labour)
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Are the buses coming next year?
Bertie Ahern (Dublin Central, Fianna Fail)
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The Bill is coming next year.
Joan Burton (Dublin West, Labour)
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The Bill is coming next year. I thank the Ceann Comhairle for his graciousness.
Billy Timmins (Wicklow, Fine Gael)
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When can we expect to see a defence (amendment) Bill? In the interests of his own safety, did the Taoiseach discuss the issue of the proposed Easter commemoration parade next year with the Minister for Defence before he discussed it with the Defence Forces——
Rory O'Hanlon (Cavan-Monaghan, Ceann Comhairle)
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On the defence Bill.
Billy Timmins (Wicklow, Fine Gael)
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——given the fact that the Minister for Defence said in the House a few weeks ago that he takes instructions from nobody?
Pat Rabbitte (Dublin South West, Labour)
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He should discuss it with the Minister for Justice, Equality and Law Reform.
Rory O'Hanlon (Cavan-Monaghan, Ceann Comhairle)
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Deputy Timmins should allow the Taoiseach to answer the question on the defence Bill.
Bertie Ahern (Dublin Central, Fianna Fail)
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The middle of next year.
Billy Timmins (Wicklow, Fine Gael)
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Did the Taoiseach discuss the Easter parade with the Minister for Defence?
Kathleen Lynch (Cork North Central, Labour)
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In the light of recent events and given that the Minister for Justice, Equality and Law Reform has just joined us, will the Taoiseach inform the House when we will have legislation to protect the dead from defamation?
Rory O'Hanlon (Cavan-Monaghan, Ceann Comhairle)
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Is legislation promised?
Joe Costello (Dublin Central, Labour)
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The Minister for Justice, Equality and Law Reform is very much alive.
Bertie Ahern (Dublin Central, Fianna Fail)
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The defamation Bill will come to the House early next year.
Kathleen Lynch (Cork North Central, Labour)
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Will it include defamation of the dead?
Rory O'Hanlon (Cavan-Monaghan, Ceann Comhairle)
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We cannot discuss the content of legislation on the Order of Business.
Billy Timmins (Wicklow, Fine Gael)
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On that same issue, this is very important——
Rory O'Hanlon (Cavan-Monaghan, Ceann Comhairle)
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Deputy Timmins has already contributed. I call Deputy Naughten.
Billy Timmins (Wicklow, Fine Gael)
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I listened to a journalist yesterday who was guilty of defamation speaking on local radio in a hypocritical manner.
Rory O'Hanlon (Cavan-Monaghan, Ceann Comhairle)
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Deputy Timmins should resume his seat.
Billy Timmins (Wicklow, Fine Gael)
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It is very important that the Taoiseach would take that point on board.
Denis Naughten (Longford-Roscommon, Fine Gael)
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I suggest to the Taoiseach that he might get the Minister for Foreign Affairs, Deputy Dermot Ahern, to look for the missing buses.
Dick Roche (Wicklow, Fianna Fail)
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There are more buses on the road than when the Opposition was in power.
Denis Naughten (Longford-Roscommon, Fine Gael)
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The Tánaiste made an announcement this morning that legislation would be introduced in the House to facilitate nurses issuing prescriptions. Can the Taoiseach indicate the legislation in question and when it will come before the House?
On secondary legislation, when will we see the regulations on veterinary medicines which must be published and enacted before the end of this month? In view of both these items of legislation, does the Taoiseach not consider it crazy that the issuing of prescriptions to animals is limited to vets——
Rory O'Hanlon (Cavan-Monaghan, Ceann Comhairle)
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That does not arise. The Taoiseach should reply on the legislation.
Denis Naughten (Longford-Roscommon, Fine Gael)
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——yet both doctors and nurses can issue prescriptions for humans?
Rory O'Hanlon (Cavan-Monaghan, Ceann Comhairle)
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Deputy Naughten should allow the Taoiseach to answer his question on the legislation.
Bertie Ahern (Dublin Central, Fianna Fail)
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I presume the nurses Bill is the one in question. It is being drafted. The Veterinary Practice Act was enacted in July.
Denis Naughten (Longford-Roscommon, Fine Gael)
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I refer to secondary legislation, regulations on veterinary medicines which must be enacted before the end of this month.
Bertie Ahern (Dublin Central, Fianna Fail)
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I will raise the matter with the Minister.