Phil Hogan (Carlow-Kilkenny, Fine Gael)
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Question 85: To ask the Minister for Transport if the recruitment process under way for new driver testers will fill all vacancies in the driver testing service; if he will increase the number of driver testers once these vacancies are filled; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [28820/05]

Martin Cullen (Waterford, Fianna Fail)
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The normal complement of driver testers in my Department, excluding the chief tester and supervisors, is 119. Currently there is a number of vacancies in that complement, although by and large these are being covered by the retention of retired driving testers. In normal circumstances I would be satisfied that the normal complement of 119 was adequate to maintain a high level of service to those seeking to do tests. However, as the Deputy is aware, there is an unacceptable delay in providing tests at present and I am progressing a number of options to supplement the testing capability in the short term to eliminate this backlog. This includes recruiting ten further testers on a fixed term contract. The competition for this is under way and is being managed by the Public Appointments Service. This will fill all existing vacancies. I also intend to continue to use the services of retired driver testers in the short term, although this could put the number on the Department's payroll above 119 for a short time. I expect the number to return to approximately 119 once the backlog is cleared.

In addition, and for the express purpose of eliminating the current backlog and restoring a reasonable level of service to our customers, I am seeking to outsource a limited and defined number of tests to an outside contractor. I have also proposed an incentive package to our existing driver testing staff. If this package is delivered the backlog will be cleared within 18 to 24 months, hopefully within 18 months. My expectation is that by then a cohort of 119 testers should be sufficient to deliver the service and the testing function should have transferred to an independent agency under legislation currently before the House.

I am not satisfied with the delay that exists in driver testing, from a road safety perspective or in terms of basic customer service standards. As outlined, my plans to address this include a very attractive incentive package for existing driver testing staff, the recruitment of additional contract staff and the limited use of outsourcing. I am looking for the support of all those involved in meeting this challenge. I ask them to agree this extremely generous package and to assist us in looking after our customers in this regard.

Olivia Mitchell (Dublin South, Fine Gael)
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I agree with the Minister that driver behaviour is the single biggest cause of most accidents. However, driver behaviour is influenced by official action and particularly by official indifference. The message going out to drivers must be that there is official indifference to road safety given that there are 335,000 drivers with provisional licences, most of whom have failed their driving test. That is the background to the discussion on road accidents.

Testing is critical. The Minister stated he has advertised for ten additional testers. He also stated that legislation to set up an independent body is imminent and will be back before the House shortly. It is critical that this authority has the budget to provide a sufficient number of testers. I do not want to wander into the area of industrial relations difficulties, and I wonder why these difficulties were not resolved during the benchmarking process and why we are now offering further incentives for increased productivity. Nevertheless, I imagine the background to this is the fact that the testers will probably all be switched to an independent authority, for which the Minister will not be answerable to the House. Therefore, I must ask now whether that authority will have the budget to recruit testers when required to clear backlogs.

The issue does not only concern backlogs. If the authority has the new road safety remit the Minister promises, driver testers will be responsible for retesting and further activities in regard to ongoing education. In addition, the population is increasing. The budget of the authority is critical in ensuring it can recruit testers when required. The Minister must agree that Ireland is the only country in Europe where road deaths are increasing per capita and where one third of a million people drive on provisional licences. The situation is unacceptable.

Martin Cullen (Waterford, Fianna Fail)
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I do not disagree with the Deputy.

Olivia Mitchell (Dublin South, Fine Gael)
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The Minister is in charge.

Martin Cullen (Waterford, Fianna Fail)
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I agree the situation is unacceptable. The Minister for Finance has been very supportive of me in providing the financial resources to achieve the outcome we need, namely, an end to backlog. I never want to see backlogs recur and it is undoubted that this proposal will end the backlog. When the backlog is out of the way, we will be have the capacity to keep the full complement of driver testers in place. When the new authority is established, resources will be fully available to it to meet demands.

The existing Civil Service structure is not the right one for the reasons outlined by the Deputy, namely, the system needs flexibility within a public service mandate. This is the best approach. It is a win-win situation for everybody and, above all, it is a win for the young drivers and others who need to get their driving licences. I do not want a position sustained whereby huge numbers of young people are driving on their second, third and fourth provisional licences. That is not the way we should operate the driving licence system.

Róisín Shortall (Dublin North West, Labour)
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It is difficult to follow the Minister's logic. There are huge backlogs, with a current waiting time of up to 60 weeks.

Martin Cullen (Waterford, Fianna Fail)
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In some places.

Róisín Shortall (Dublin North West, Labour)
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This situation has not just occurred overnight but has been the case for several years. Moreover, the backlog does not include all the people who have simply ignored the system and drive without any form of licence. It is an awful situation. The Minister talks about providing incentives to get existing driver testers to work longer hours, recruiting temporary testers and outsourcing the work. If he accepts that all this work needs to be done, how can he believe the complement of 119 testers is adequate? The Minister noted the rate of car ownership is increasing and that people are beginning to drive at a younger age. Surely we need to increase tester numbers in line with the growth in population.

Martin Cullen (Waterford, Fianna Fail)
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The problem is that the backlog is so large, at approximately 130,000. I have examined this issue in detail with the testers and have been told by them that they would have no trouble dealing with a normal, average number of applications for driver tests. In fact, it was only two or three years ago that waiting times had reduced to a few weeks. We know what happened then and the reason it happened.

Denis Naughten (Longford-Roscommon, Fine Gael)
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The former Minister for Transport, Deputy Brennan, opened his mouth.

Eamon Ryan (Dublin South, Green Party)
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The Minister, Deputy Brennan, made a complete mess of it.

Martin Cullen (Waterford, Fianna Fail)
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It was an issue then that people decided——

Olivia Mitchell (Dublin South, Fine Gael)
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If the backlog is growing, how will it be cleared?

Martin Cullen (Waterford, Fianna Fail)
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I am answering the question.

Olivia Mitchell (Dublin South, Fine Gael)
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The logic of what the Minister is saying is completely wrong.

Martin Cullen (Waterford, Fianna Fail)
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The testers feel that the full complement of 119 is more than adequate to meet demands, although the system has always operated with less than a full complement. However, to give the system the flexibility to bring in extra testers on occasion, or more permanent testers, will make it possible to reduce backlogs. I can only operate on the basis of what I am told by the experts — the driver testers — who are at the coal face. They tell me how they operate and what they can cope with. If they deliver and this process delivers, and the backlog is cleared in approximately 18 months, drivers will be able to apply for and get their driving licence in just a few weeks. That is the position that must be sustained into the future.

Bernard Durkan (Kildare North, Fine Gael)
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Does the Minister accept there would not be a backlog if the system had worked efficiently with 119 testers? Given that a backlog has arisen, there is obviously a problem. By what date does the Minister expect to have the backlog cleared? How does the Minister propose to appoint those who will do the outsourced work? Will the positions be advertised? Is a firm of consultants required to advise on the issue and all the associated costs?

Martin Cullen (Waterford, Fianna Fail)
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That process is complete.

Bernard Durkan (Kildare North, Fine Gael)
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Tell us about it.

Martin Cullen (Waterford, Fianna Fail)
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It has gone out to public and international tender. I have not seen the final results but the process is almost at an end, which I am happy to report to the House. If we had agreement, the Department would be in a position to appoint a major company for the outsourcing on a very fixed-time contract.

Róisín Shortall (Dublin North West, Labour)
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Is it the NCT?

Martin Cullen (Waterford, Fianna Fail)
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I believe it is one of the companies. The file has not come to me to sign, so I do not want to speculate on it. There has been speculation.

I am not in a position of having to go into all this because it has been done. I would be ready to roll it out if we could get agreement on the process. We must go to the Labour Relations Commission. I do not believe that is necessary given the quality of the package in place but if we must go through that process, we will do so. If we get agreement there, we could start the process on 1 January. It will take about 18 months to clear.

Bernard Durkan (Kildare North, Fine Gael)
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Is it cost effective?

Martin Cullen (Waterford, Fianna Fail)
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It is very cost effective.

Bernard Durkan (Kildare North, Fine Gael)
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How does the Minister know?

Martin Cullen (Waterford, Fianna Fail)
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I know the figures involved.

Bernard Durkan (Kildare North, Fine Gael)
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Why does the Minister not give us them?

Martin Cullen (Waterford, Fianna Fail)
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The Deputy did not ask me for them.

Bernard Durkan (Kildare North, Fine Gael)
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Is the Minister being bashful? I asked the Minister for them.

Martin Cullen (Waterford, Fianna Fail)
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In June 2003——

Bernard Durkan (Kildare North, Fine Gael)
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On a point of order, I asked that precise question. The Minister has misled the House. He said I did not ask him.

Martin Cullen (Waterford, Fianna Fail)
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I have no problem giving the information. The information was not sought in the question. I do not carry all that information in my head but I have no issue giving the Deputy the costs. I would be happy to make them available to him.