Aengus Ó Snodaigh (Dublin South Central, Sinn Fein)
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Question 5: To ask the Minister for Foreign Affairs the manner by which the Government actively monitors discrimination and inequality issues in Northern Ireland; and his views on whether these monitoring measures are adequate. [27232/05]

Dermot Ahern (Louth, Fianna Fail)
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The protection of human rights and the promotion of equality is at the heart of the Good Friday Agreement. This was collectively affirmed by the parties in the commitment in the agreement to "the mutual respect, the civil rights and the religious liberties of everyone in the community". This included in particular "the right to equal opportunity in all social and economic activity, regardless of class, creed, disability, gender or ethnicity".

The Government has consistently sought to pursue the equality agenda set out in the agreement and which was further elaborated in the Joint Declaration by the British and Irish Governments in April 2003.

The Government actively monitors the situation on the ground in Northern Ireland as regards discrimination and inequality. This is done through regular official level engagement with community contacts, with political representatives, members of the NGO and academic community and with representatives of the relevant official bodies, such as the Equality Commission and the Human Rights Commission. These measures are effective, equipping us to actively advance the implementation of the Good Friday Agreement in the equality area.

During my own frequent visits to Northern Ireland I make a point of meeting individuals and community representatives from both traditions. These visits are a very valuable direct source of information, including of course on equality issues.

In keeping with the high priority which the Government attaches to the equality agenda, we use the institutional framework of the British-Irish Intergovernmental Conference and meetings of the conference to engage with the British Government on the implementation of the equality provisions in the Good Friday Agreement and the joint declaration. Equality issues are a regular item on the agenda for ministerial and summit meetings of the conference, as the communiqués of those meetings make clear.

Overall, while there has been some progress, we should like to see more — especially as regards the employment differential and the allocation of public housing. The issue was discussed at the last meeting of the BIIGC and will be pursued further at the next meeting planned for later this month. We will, of course, continue to keep individual cases under review and raise them, as appropriate, through the framework of the British-Irish Intergovernmental Conference.

Aengus Ó Snodaigh (Dublin South Central, Sinn Fein)
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I have a number of quotations from the Minister. In March 2005 he said that the type of discrimination that took place in previous decades had all but disappeared. Last month he was quoted speaking about "endemic unemployment in loyalist areas which is not as clear cut in nationalist areas, where perhaps the ability to advance individuals because of their education has not been the same in loyalist areas". Does the Minister stand over those comments now? Will he agree that anybody who made such comments, despite the reality of the situation, well-documented by British statistics, is blind to inequality, blind to discrimination and blind to religion?

It is naive to suggest that the existence of anti-discrimination legislation translates into the disappearance of discrimination. Is the Minister aware of the most recent statistics published by the British authorities? I will give him a copy. It gives a full list, area by area, with an indicator by indicator on every one of them. Those communities regarded as Catholic and Nationalist are less well off than their counterparts in loyalist or Protestant areas. I can quote a number of them, but it is sufficient to say that Catholics were twice as likely to be unemployed in 2004 as those who lived in Protestant areas.

The differential has increased since 1990. Northern Ireland Housing Executive figures for the period 2002 to 2005 show under-allocation to Catholics of 16% and over-allocation to Protestants of 21%. Other similar figures have also been published. On every indicator relating to objective need Catholics are shown to be worse off. Does the Minister not agree that objective need should be the only criterion governing the allocation of funding to communities and informing equality building measures as stipulated in the Good Friday Agreement?

Dermot Ahern (Louth, Fianna Fail)
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Yes, objective criteria should be used. Polarisation is not needed in this type of debate. I accept that inequality is wrong no matter where it is found. I made my earlier comments in the context of the type of discrimination against Nationalists, which was endemic for decades in Northern Ireland, being all but eliminated as a result of the legislation now in place. Northern Ireland probably has more legislation on discrimination than any other country in Western Europe and is probably watched more than any other society in that respect. In recent years, significant progress has been made in addressing discrimination against Nationalists and Catholics across all areas.

On the general level of discrimination and inequality, which Deputy Ó Snodaigh also raised, the Government raises these issues time and again. I have raised them at every meeting I have had with the Northern authorities, whether in the person of the Secretary of State, Peter Hain, or his officials, and will raise them again at the British Irish Intergovernmental Body which will meet towards the end of the month.

With regard to my comments on deprivation in loyalist areas, even Deputy Ó Snodaigh will accept that in recent decades many people from loyalist areas have completed their education and moved to the UK. By failing to return they have, to an extent, denuded loyalist areas of people who have advanced in society, leaving behind those who cannot get jobs. In Nationalist communities, on the other hand, those who have obtained third level degrees have remained in Northern Ireland and have been a great resource to their communities not only through their community work but simply by staying in their communities. It is important that we be even-handed in all these matters. These problems are less a result of conflict than social and economic difficulties present in Northern Ireland and perhaps not as stark in the South. They are particularly acute in loyalist communities where people used to be guaranteed jobs for life in industries to which Catholics may not have had access. The fact that this is no longer the case causes difficulties in loyalist areas. We must try to understand the difficulties faced by both communities. We raise these matters with the Northern authorities at every meeting to ensure the principles of the Good Friday Agreement are expressed in legislation.

Aengus Ó Snodaigh (Dublin South Central, Sinn Fein)
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The Minister is correct that certain loyalist working class communities are deprived because of a lack of leadership. While monitoring is well and good, what additional function can the Government undertake to advance equality for Irish citizens in the Six Counties and reduce the rate of unemployment in Catholic and Nationalist areas? The disparity between these and other areas appears to be increasing. If we are to believe British Government statistics, other indicators of social need, as expressed in the percentages affected in Nationalist and Unionist areas, show that Nationalists are worse off now than they were ten or 15 years ago.

Dermot Ahern (Louth, Fianna Fail)
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It is not all bad news. In 1990 unemployment was higher in Northern Ireland than the rest of the United Kingdom. The unemployment rate in Catholic and Protestant areas has since fallen dramatically and is now lower than the average UK rate. While significant pockets of unemployment remain and significant differences remain in the ratio of Catholics to Protestants unemployed, the figures are improving. I received figures on the PSNI, for example, which show the number of Catholics in the police has dramatically improved in recent years.

Monitoring and assessment of all these indicators continues right across the spectrum and liaison between officials from the South and their Northern counterparts is continuous with a view to ensuring equality remains high on the agenda. I welcome the recent appointment of Mr. Bob Collins as chairman of the Equality Commission for Northern Ireland.