Olwyn Enright (Laois-Offaly, Fine Gael)
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Question 49: To ask the Minister for Education and Science when all students using the school transport service will have their own seats; her views on calls for the introduction of seat belts on all buses; and if she will make a statement on the matter. [19937/05]

Jan O'Sullivan (Limerick East, Labour)
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Question 50: To ask the Minister for Education and Science the review of safety standards on school buses which has been undertaken since the recent County Meath crash in which five persons died; if a decision has been made on the fitting of seat belts in school buses; if the Government will consider the provision of funds to allow for the replacement of old buses with custom built school buses; and if she will make a statement on the matter. [19804/05]

Síle de Valera (Clare, Fianna Fail)
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I propose to take questions Question Nos. 49 and 50 together.

The safety of the school transport service is constantly under review in my Department. In January 2005, I initiated a warning flashing light pilot scheme on school buses. These lights reduce the risk of accidents in the vicinity of the school bus as pupils descend where safety research has shown the majority of accidents occur. It is planned to roll out the scheme on a phased basis to other parts of the country following a successful evaluation of the pilot project. The question of introducing legislation to require motorists to stop on approaching a school bus showing flashing lights is being examined actively.

An older bus does not mean an unsafe bus. All vehicles operating under the school transport scheme are required to meet the statutory regulations as laid down by the Department of Transport. Where vehicles have over eight adult seats and are more than one year old, they are required to pass that Department's annual roadworthiness test. No bus which is unsafe or dangerous is allowed onto the road to carry children. About 20% of the vehicles used for school transport are owned by Bus Éireann and the remaining 80% are owned by private operators on contract to Bus Éireann. The average age of the Bus Éireann large capacity bus fleet is 16 years. The average age of all vehicles used is 11.5 years.

Since 1999, Bus Éireann has purchased a large number of vehicles as part of an ongoing school bus fleet replacement programme, in order to improve the age profile and condition of its school bus fleet. The Bus Éireann school bus fleet currently has around 400 large capacity buses that were transferred from the general service fleet into the dedicated school transport bus fleet. Over 250 of these buses were transferred in the period 1999-2003, and they represent another valuable source of replacement buses over this period. This investment has produced an improvement in the condition of the fleet generally and this fleet replacement programme, aimed at replacing older buses with more modern vehicles, is continuing.

The loading of all school buses is determined by the relevant sections of the Road Traffic (Construction, Equipment and Use of Vehicles) Regulations laid down by the Department of Transport. In accordance with relevant legislation, the licensed carrying capacity of all vehicles engaged in school transport is based on a ratio of three pupils for every two adult seats. My Department has been in discussions with Bus Éireann with a view to phasing out the three for two arrangements. The discussions have been advanced to a stage at which I can confirm that the necessary steps are being taken to commence the general phasing out of three for two seating arrangements over two to three years from next September.

The wearing of seat belts and the three for two rule are intrinsically linked, in the context of which no legal requirement to wear seat belts in buses, including school buses, obtains. However, EU Directive 2003/20, which requires seat belts to be used where they are fitted, must be transposed into national law by 9 May 2006. Proposals to extend the requirement to fit seat belts in all new vehicles, except city buses used in stage-stop routes, have been developed separately at EU level. Once the directive has been adopted, all school buses being registered from a future date, which is yet to be determined, will be required to be fitted with seat belts. The directive is not expected to provide for the mandatory retrofitting of seat belts in existing buses.

Seat belts on school buses would have to be introduced on a phased basis having regard to the logistical difficulties of sourcing seat-belt equipped right-hand drive buses. The type or types of seat belt to be fitted must be determined with regard to the differing sizes of the student passengers being carried. My Department is working closely with the Department of Transport and Bus Éireann on these matters and meetings with international safety experts will begin very soon to facilitate progress. A phased programme of retrofitting of seat belts on some buses to a high specification may also be possible depending on safety research. I will consider which proposals should be brought to Government having regard to the advice of safety experts when it becomes available.

Olwyn Enright (Laois-Offaly, Fine Gael)
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I am not especially interested in whether the EU will ask us to retrofit school buses as it is a decision we should take ourselves. The Minister of State has overseen an ongoing review of school transport for over a year which is separate from the review initiated to consider the awful accident in Meath. When will the original review be published and has it taken into account the various issues which have been raised in recent weeks, including the three for two rule? While I welcome the Minister of State's progress on the rule, I would prefer to see it phased out in full from next September rather than over a longer timeframe. Is the failure to phase out current seating arrangements in the short term related to shortages in funding and resources?

What will be the timescale for the phased roll-out of the flashing light pilot scheme? The Minister of State will understand my questioning of pilot schemes given that Youthreach has existed on a pilot scheme footing for 17 years. I would like to know when the flashing light scheme will be rolled out across the country. The Minister of State failed to refer to supervision on school buses. Is supervision on school buses being considered as part of the review process and will the Minister of State consider making it mandatory?

Seat belts represent a fundamental issue for parents. I have spoken to many bus drivers who say that whether they are transporting school children or sports teams, parents are asking actively at the moment whether there are seat belts on their buses. A significant number of private vehicles under contract are equipped with seat belts and use them. It is the buses provided by the State's Bus Éireann fleet that are not so equipped. Will the Minister of State tell the House what exactly she intends to do and whether she has a process in train to consider retrofitting or whether it forms part of the review that is already taking place?

Síle de Valera (Clare, Fianna Fail)
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The Deputy is perfectly right that the directive will not come into force under the position I outlined in my initial answer. I wish to proceed ahead of transposition of the directive because our interest is to ensure every possible safety mechanism exists within the school transport system. The process has been ongoing which is why we have actively considered the phasing out of three for two seating arrangements. Many references have been made to the report of the Oireachtas committee which considered school transport and made two very interesting findings. The committee recommended the phasing out of three for two seating arrangements for primary school pupils whereas I wish to phase them out completely on all school buses. While the committee referred to the provision of seat belts in new buses only, we intend to ensure all buses in the school transport fleet are so equipped.

Olwyn Enright (Laois-Offaly, Fine Gael)
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I did not refer to the Oireachtas committee.

Síle de Valera (Clare, Fianna Fail)
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We acknowledge up front that the introduction of seat belts will be phased due to difficulties of which we have been made aware through the research the Department has gathered over some time on the abolition of three for two seating arrangements and the provision of new equipment.

The Deputy referred in her question to the flashing light pilot scheme. The scheme was initiated on a pilot basis to allow us to evaluate it. While I await the official report, I am pleased that anecdotal evidence suggests the scheme has had positive effects and ensured a slowing down of buses. I wish to go further, however, as the issue is not simply one of having buses slow down. I want to roll out the flashing light scheme nationally and to ensure that motorists not only slow down but stop in the vicinity of school buses. Research has consistently demonstrated that the most significant safety concerns involve what occurs in the vicinity of school buses rather than on them.

In response to Deputy Enright's request for figures on the number of buses already fitted with seat belts, it is estimated that 80% of the 1,200 minibuses owned by private contractors are so equipped. Only 20% of the remaining 1,560 large and medium-sized buses, of which Bus Éireann owns 650, are fitted with seat belts. None of the Bus Éireann buses is fitted with seat belts. All cars and taxis, of which there are 255 in the scheme, are fitted with seat belts.

Olwyn Enright (Laois-Offaly, Fine Gael)
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I did not ask for that information, I asked when the seat belts would be fitted.

Jan O'Sullivan (Limerick East, Labour)
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What we need the Minister of State to say and what the public and parents of children travelling on school buses would like to hear is that there is an urgency, plan and timescale for implementation. I did not detect in her reply evidence that anything has changed in the Department since the school bus crash in Meath. Is there a plan and a timescale for its implementation? Has the Minister of State carried out costings to assess the level of funding required to replace the fleet with seat belt fitted buses? Has it been determined in the Department whether there are buses suitable for retrofitting and, if so, how many such buses are in the fleet and what will it cost to equip them with seat belts?

While we appreciate there are constraints, we need to see that there is a sense of determination and purpose to ensure action is taken as quickly as possible. In a reply from the Department to the Joint Committee on Education and Science on 4 April 2005 following a discussion on school transport, it was indicated that a discussion document, Safer School Buses, was circulated in April 2002 by the vehicle standards section of the then Department of the Environment and Local Government, which subsequently transferred to the Department of Transport. The discussion document addressed many of the issues being considered, including the retrofitting of seat belts to buses. Does the Minister of State need to wait for further information? Is there not enough information in the Department to allow work to commence on the oldest, least safe buses and speed up the phasing out of three for two seating arrangements? The answer was known before the Meath crash which indicates a need for greater urgency.

Síle de Valera (Clare, Fianna Fail)
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I assure the Deputy that there is a sense of urgency which does not relate simply to the very sad deaths of five students in Meath. The circumstances of the crash were very difficult for everybody, but the general safety of buses is and must be the subject of ongoing review in the Department. Deputy O'Sullivan admits rightly that three for two seating arrangements have been considered in the Department for some time, which is why we are able to say they will be completely abolished within two to three years. The Deputy can rest assured that if we can, we will do it sooner than that.

In terms of the retrofitting of seat belts, as I explained in the debate a couple of weeks ago in this House, I was informed by the experts that retrofitting must be done in a specialised way so as to ensure that any adaptation would be completely safe. I will meet again with the experts who will provide further information to me and the Department. I have been told there may be some buses already in the fleet that can be retrofitted with seat belts. The matter is a not simple one as we are talking about a number of different types of seat belts. It will be for the experts to advise us on the type of seat belts that would be most applicable in terms of safety on these buses.

We have been looking at different types of buses on an ongoing basis. We have looked at three different types of new buses, a Turkish made bus, a bus made in Donegal and a bus made in Britain. All these new buses are fitted with seat belts. I emphasise that it is not a question of equating old buses with a lack of safety. There are strict road worthiness criteria for all school buses. Replacement and additional buses are to be equipped with seat belts. I made a statement to that effect on 25 May and the Taoiseach reiterated this statement on 27 May in an RTE television debate.

We will be phasing in seat belts for the entire transport fleet, but as I stated, there are logistical problems in trying to acquire right-hand buses. We are doing our utmost to ensure that will happen but it will take time. That is the overall position.