Dáil debates

Wednesday, 25 May 2005

Ceisteanna — Questions.

Programmes for Government.

11:00 am

Photo of Enda KennyEnda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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Question 1: To ask the Taoiseach if he will report on the implementation of An Agreed Programme for Government; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [14076/05]

Photo of Joe HigginsJoe Higgins (Dublin West, Socialist Party)
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Question 2: To ask the Taoiseach if he will report on the progress to date in implementing An Agreed Programme for Government. [15216/05]

Photo of Trevor SargentTrevor Sargent (Dublin North, Green Party)
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Question 3: To ask the Taoiseach if he will report on progress in implementing An Agreed Programme for Government; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [16072/05]

Photo of Caoimhghín Ó CaoláinCaoimhghín Ó Caoláin (Cavan-Monaghan, Sinn Fein)
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Question 4: To ask the Taoiseach if he will report on progress in the implementation of the programme for Government; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [16176/05]

Photo of Bertie AhernBertie Ahern (Dublin Central, Fianna Fail)
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I propose to take Questions Nos. 1 to 4, inclusive, together.

Progress on the implementation of the programme for Government is kept under constant review. For every full year that Fianna Fáil and the Progressive Democrats have been in Government, we have published an annual progress report. The second annual progress report of this Administration was published on 1 August 2004. Work is under way on the third annual progress report.

The progress reports set out the progress to date in implementing each commitment contained in the programme for Government. It is the responsibility of each Minister to ensure the commitments in the programme that fall within his or her portfolio are fully implemented.

The Department of the Taoiseach derives its mandate from my role as Head of Government. It is involved to some degree in virtually all aspects of the work of Government. It supports me as Taoiseach, and the Government through the Government Secretariat, the Cabinet committee system and through its involvement in key policy areas and initiatives.

The key strategic priorities of the Department are set out in its strategy statement. They include Northern Ireland, EU and international affairs, economic and social policy, social partnership, public service modernisation and the information society and e-Government. I, and the Ministers of State in my Department, answer questions in the House on these issues. My Department works closely with other Departments and offices. Individual Ministers are answerable the House in respect of their specific areas of responsibility.

The key areas for which my Department is responsible in terms of An Agreed Programme for Government are supporting the development and implementation of social partnership, working with the British Government and the parties in Northern Ireland to achieve the implementation of the Good Friday Agreement in all its aspects, co-ordinating the e-Government initiative to bring about an expansion in the range and quality of on-line Government services and ensuring that Ireland's key objectives in the European Union are carried forward in the context of my role as a member of the European Council.

Photo of Enda KennyEnda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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The report on the programme for Government is a litany of failure. For example, in the area of health, the promised extra 200,000 medical cards have not been delivered. In June 2002, a total of 1.207 million people were covered by medical cards and in April 2005 only 1.145 million were covered. That is a failure.

Photo of Rory O'HanlonRory O'Hanlon (Cavan-Monaghan, Ceann Comhairle)
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The Deputy should address detailed questions to the line Minister responsible and address general questions only to the Taoiseach.

Photo of Enda KennyEnda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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We were promised 3,000 extra hospital beds but that has failed and we were promised extra nurses and consultants but again the Government has failed to deliver.

Photo of Rory O'HanlonRory O'Hanlon (Cavan-Monaghan, Ceann Comhairle)
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The Deputy is making a speech which is not appropriate on Question Time.

Photo of Enda KennyEnda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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Does the Ceann Comhairle expect me to confine myself to generalities?

Photo of Rory O'HanlonRory O'Hanlon (Cavan-Monaghan, Ceann Comhairle)
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I expect the Deputy to submit a question. The purpose of Question Time is to elicit information from the Taoiseach.

Photo of Enda KennyEnda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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I am speaking to the Head of Government who is responsible for the programme for Government and the Ceann Comhairle tells me I am not entitled to ask him a question.

Photo of Rory O'HanlonRory O'Hanlon (Cavan-Monaghan, Ceann Comhairle)
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The Deputy should not misconstrue what is being said to him. If he listened to me he would understand this is Taoiseach's Question Time, the purpose of which is to elicit information from the Taoiseach, not to make a statement. All my predecessors have ruled that detailed questions about a particular Department for which the Taoiseach does not have first hand responsibility——

Photo of Enda KennyEnda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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The first question is to ask "the Taoiseach if he will report on the implementation of An Agreed Programme for Government".

Photo of Rory O'HanlonRory O'Hanlon (Cavan-Monaghan, Ceann Comhairle)
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General questions are acceptable but detailed questions should be addressed to the line Minister.

Photo of Enda KennyEnda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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Part of that agreed programme for Government deals with the area of health, namely, accident and emergency units, waiting lists, medical cards, consultants, doctors——

Photo of Rory O'HanlonRory O'Hanlon (Cavan-Monaghan, Ceann Comhairle)
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Detailed questions are out of order. The Chair is ruling as all his predecessors have ruled. I ask the Deputy to accept the ruling.

Photo of Enda KennyEnda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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Am I entitled to ask the Taoiseach why we have no fully staffed traffic corps, which is part of the programme for Government? Why will there be no metro to Dublin Airport by 2007, which is part of the agreed programme for Government?

Photo of Rory O'HanlonRory O'Hanlon (Cavan-Monaghan, Ceann Comhairle)
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The Deputy knows those questions should be addressed directly to the line Minister responsible.

Photo of Fergus O'DowdFergus O'Dowd (Louth, Fine Gael)
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What is the point in having Question Time if one cannot ask a question?

Photo of Enda KennyEnda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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Why is there no competition in the Dublin bus market, which is part of the agreed programme for Government? I could go on and on but the Ceann Comhairle is ruling me out of order. The Taoiseach might comment on the six questions I have raised about the implementation of this programme.

Photo of Bertie AhernBertie Ahern (Dublin Central, Fianna Fail)
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I have reported on the implementation of An Agreed Programme for Government across several areas.

Which questions may I answer? I do not wish to break the ruling of the Chair.

Photo of Fergus O'DowdFergus O'Dowd (Louth, Fine Gael)
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The Taoiseach should focus on his greatest failure.

Photo of Jim O'KeeffeJim O'Keeffe (Cork South West, Fine Gael)
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There is failure on all fronts.

Photo of David StantonDavid Stanton (Cork East, Fine Gael)
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The Taoiseach should reform the Dáil so that we can ask questions.

Photo of Jim O'KeeffeJim O'Keeffe (Cork South West, Fine Gael)
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He should focus on his least bad failure.

Photo of Paul KehoePaul Kehoe (Wexford, Fine Gael)
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The Taoiseach should not feel embarrassed.

Photo of Bertie AhernBertie Ahern (Dublin Central, Fianna Fail)
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That is not a problem. I just do not wish to break the rulings of the Chair.

Our report details every area of our commitments in the programme for Government — health, education and the broad areas of the economy. We have covered many of them. They are not all finished but as in the last programme, we intend to get near to completion by the end of the programme's five year term.

I can go through the detailed commitments but in the broad terms of management of the economy, employment and the resources put into the health service, education and medical cards, which the Deputy mentioned, we have honoured our commitments. We continue to extend coverage to more patients, in terms of facilities, whether in general areas or cardiac or cancer services. We have honoured the specific commitments made in all those areas.

Photo of Jim O'KeeffeJim O'Keeffe (Cork South West, Fine Gael)
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The Government has spent the money but has nothing to show for it.

Photo of Bertie AhernBertie Ahern (Dublin Central, Fianna Fail)
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I am trying to pick up the Deputy's individual questions. He focused on only one area but I can stray outside that area to say we have honoured, and continue to honour, our commitments on infrastructure through the national development plan, and the EU and Northern Ireland on which we regularly answer questions.

Photo of Enda KennyEnda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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Whether the Taoiseach answers, he does not have to misconstrue what the Chair said. I always respect the Chair's rulings.

Photo of Bertie AhernBertie Ahern (Dublin Central, Fianna Fail)
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I was trying to stay within the rules.

Photo of Enda KennyEnda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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The Chair told me years ago to ask those questions. He said that is the way to get information from the Taoiseach of the day.

Photo of Rory O'HanlonRory O'Hanlon (Cavan-Monaghan, Ceann Comhairle)
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The Deputy should ask them in a structured way to the correct Minister.

Photo of Michael D HigginsMichael D Higgins (Galway West, Labour)
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The Taoiseach's Department has line responsibility for the agreement with the social partners. The Fianna Fáil programme and the programme for Government made an explicit commitment to allocate 0.7% of GNP to overseas development aid by 2007. That is in the agreement with the social partners, the programme for Government and the Fianna Fáil manifesto and that of other parties. It was the centrepiece of the Taoiseach's speech to the United Nations in September 2000. Not only has that not been implemented but no alternative date has been announced.

Shamefully, a programme issued this morning by Development Cooperation Ireland refers to a different target about the achievement of which the Government crows. That is the development aid of 0.15% of GNP to the least developed countries. The Taoiseach, the social partners and the Government committed themselves to what is in the programme for Government.

Photo of Rory O'HanlonRory O'Hanlon (Cavan-Monaghan, Ceann Comhairle)
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A question please.

Photo of Michael D HigginsMichael D Higgins (Galway West, Labour)
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Is the Taoiseach not ashamed that such a clear commitment supported by the people of Ireland and all sides of the House was so disgracefully broken? Even if he is to break that promise about 2007, why does he not announce a year by which we will meet the United Nations target? That is a matter for which he is responsible. He is responsible for the agreement with the social partners. I would like an answer.

Photo of Bertie AhernBertie Ahern (Dublin Central, Fianna Fail)
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We have not and we are not going to reach 0.7% of GNP by 2007 as I certainly would have liked.

Photo of Trevor SargentTrevor Sargent (Dublin North, Green Party)
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The Taoiseach promised to do it.

Photo of Bertie AhernBertie Ahern (Dublin Central, Fianna Fail)
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I take the Deputy's point that we have to work to set a new target and we will do that. The Deputy will accept we have put enormous resources into this area. One of the few downsides of the high economic growth in recent years is that even though we have put in record sums of money it still has not done much in terms of the percentage figure.

Photo of Michael D HigginsMichael D Higgins (Galway West, Labour)
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We knew that in September 2000 when the Taoiseach made the commitment.

Photo of Bertie AhernBertie Ahern (Dublin Central, Fianna Fail)
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We had it worked out when I made the commitment. Let us remember what happened in 2002 when economic growth fell back to 1%. The lower the rate of economic growth the quicker one reaches the target. If there were four or five bad years in the economy and we still put in the resources the percentage would bounce back up the line as happened in a few countries. The fact is we have put in record sums of money and we have committed to putting in record sums of money in the next few years. We will have put in €1.8 billion over the three year period. I have spoken with the NGO organisations as has the Minister of State at the Department of Foreign Affairs, Deputy Conor Lenihan, in preparation for the White Paper to try to incrementally fix a target. While we have not reached the percentage — I have made that clear time and again in the House and outside — we have put in enormous resources and in regard to our development aid programme we have added additional countries. That we have been able to put in several hundred millions of euro into those programmes is hugely beneficial. We rank seven in the world in terms of our aid which is an extraordinary achievement. We will continue to put in resources because it is money well spent and it is the right thing to do. We do not tie aid and do not do what many other countries do, nor should we but our resources are hugely beneficial. I am still committed to the figure but——

Photo of Michael D HigginsMichael D Higgins (Galway West, Labour)
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We became too rich to keep our promise.

Photo of Rory O'HanlonRory O'Hanlon (Cavan-Monaghan, Ceann Comhairle)
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I ask Deputy Higgins to allow the Taoiseach to reply without interruption.

Photo of Bertie AhernBertie Ahern (Dublin Central, Fianna Fail)
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It is not a question that we have got too rich. Over a three year period we have put in €1.8 billion which is an extraordinarily large commitment. While that is not the figure we want to reach, this country is contributing huge amounts of money and rightly so and in the consultation process we have to take account of what is happening in the European Union.

Photo of Rory O'HanlonRory O'Hanlon (Cavan-Monaghan, Ceann Comhairle)
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My apologies to Deputy Joe Higgins who should have been called second.

Photo of Joe HigginsJoe Higgins (Dublin West, Socialist Party)
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I graciously accept your apology, a Cheann Comhairle. On the timescale for the delivery of the commitments in the programme for Government, what is the Government's view on how flexible it is? The Taoiseach is completing the third year of his second term of office, a total of eight years, and has two years to go. Assuming the second term continues for the full five years, 60% of the time has elapsed but 60% of the commitments have not been achieved by any stretch of the imagination. While I cannot go into precise details, let us take the 3,000 beds that should be added to the health service, those ripped out in the 1980s. What is the timescale in regard to the health service?

Photo of Rory O'HanlonRory O'Hanlon (Cavan-Monaghan, Ceann Comhairle)
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Detailed questions should be addressed direct to the line Minister.

Photo of Joe HigginsJoe Higgins (Dublin West, Socialist Party)
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I have to illustrate briefly the point I am trying to make. Does the Taoiseach envisage that in two years there will be no persons languishing on trolleys in hospitals? That is a question on the timescale. There is also the question of class sizes and other issues.

Photo of Bertie AhernBertie Ahern (Dublin Central, Fianna Fail)
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Obviously the Government has two years to run and we have to try to achieve as much as possible. In many areas we have already achieved our commitments in full while in others we have not. On the issue of beds, a further 200 are being put in place. We are using also an enormous amount of private beds which are already built. That is not what we had envisaged but it is a more effective way of putting beds in place. We bought in several hundreds of private beds rather than the State building them.

On the issue of schools we have exceeded the expenditure we envisaged putting into the capital programme. I gave the figures yesterday. We put in approximately €2 billion in recent years into the schools building programme, far more than we envisaged at the time. In recent years, under the national development plan we spent €19 billion, €3 billion more than intended. In regard to the projections for the period ahead, admittedly the five-year envelopes in the Department of Finance are rolling and go beyond the life of this Government, expenditure of €36 billion is provided for in the capital programme up to 2009 which is way ahead of what would have been envisaged in the economic model of 2002.

Photo of Trevor SargentTrevor Sargent (Dublin North, Green Party)
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It is clear that An Agreed Programme for Government is not being fully implemented while movement on some of the commitments is in the opposite direction. I will not speak about specifics. Will the Taoiseach indicate whether in the remaining two years the Government will reduce consistent poverty to below 2%? Will that be an achievement or a level hoped for in the same way as the 0.7% of GNP in development aid? Will an evaluation be carried out on how much of An Agreed Programme for Government will be implemented and has been implemented and the areas in which the Taoiseach must apologise for misleading people? For example, there was a commitment to plant 20,000 hectares per annum in forestry while only 11,000 hectares were planted. Therefore, that commitment does not stack up. Will an evaluation be done or will there be an amended programme for Government which will be more honest rather than this one which is fictitious in many ways? How can people judge the Government other than on the programme for Government which does not stack up?

Photo of Bertie AhernBertie Ahern (Dublin Central, Fianna Fail)
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In an honest and transparent way every year we carry out an analysis of every decision and provide an update on the position. Many of the commitments have been implemented. For example, we have far more in employment than we envisaged, we have more in third level education than envisaged and we have done far more in the schools building programme than envisaged. In terms of houses, many more houses have been built than envisaged. In other areas, for one reason or another, we have not reached our commitment. In the forestry programme great efforts are being made by all concerned. I read an IFA document recently on forestry which urged farmers to co-operate to build up the number of hectares under forestry. While one cannot plan accurately what will happen in a given year there are commitments to develop forestry. The Deputy and I agree that far more forestry is needed——

Photo of Trevor SargentTrevor Sargent (Dublin North, Green Party)
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It is the Taoiseach's figure.

Photo of Bertie AhernBertie Ahern (Dublin Central, Fianna Fail)
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The figure relates to what could be generated. The Deputy will recall only a few years ago it was suggested we were doing the wrong thing and should not have given over so much good agricultural land to forestry. There were criticisms at the time of the number of incentives I negotiated in an effort to develop forestry. The Government is not the only influence. We have surpassed our targets on many occasions. Sometimes the available funding is not utilised for one reason or another. It is therefore not always a question of resources but it is in many cases.

Photo of Caoimhghín Ó CaoláinCaoimhghín Ó Caoláin (Cavan-Monaghan, Sinn Fein)
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Does the Taoiseach recall one of the main pillars of An Agreed Programme for Government is the development of a world-class health service and the implementation of the Government's health strategy? I know it is hard to believe it now, but does the Taoiseach remember that one of the main commitments of the programme was that it would encourage an end to the two tier system of health care delivery?

Photo of Rory O'HanlonRory O'Hanlon (Cavan-Monaghan, Ceann Comhairle)
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I have already ruled on that matter with Deputy Kenny. We cannot have a separate ruling.

Photo of Caoimhghín Ó CaoláinCaoimhghín Ó Caoláin (Cavan-Monaghan, Sinn Fein)
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I am dealing in broad brushstroke terms.

Photo of Rory O'HanlonRory O'Hanlon (Cavan-Monaghan, Ceann Comhairle)
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Detailed questions relating to any particular service shall be directed to the line Minister responsible.

Photo of Caoimhghín Ó CaoláinCaoimhghín Ó Caoláin (Cavan-Monaghan, Sinn Fein)
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These are broad brushstroke terms, with respect. I have not specified the detailed position that Deputy Kenny articulated earlier. I am entitled to complete my question. All I ask is the opportunity to put my question.

These are the broad brushstroke commitments in the programme for Government. Will the Taoiseach affirm if the points to which I have alluded in respect of the programme for Government regarding the overall health care configuration remains the Government's commitment? Will he also confirm that an essential means of achieving equal access for all citizens to our health care system is the renegotiation of the consultants' contract?

Photo of Rory O'HanlonRory O'Hanlon (Cavan-Monaghan, Ceann Comhairle)
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That question should be addressed to the line Minister.

Photo of Caoimhghín Ó CaoláinCaoimhghín Ó Caoláin (Cavan-Monaghan, Sinn Fein)
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It is a specific commitment in the programme for Government; I am not going into the detail of what should be renegotiated, only that it requires renegotiation. It is one of the bold, enlarged type——

Photo of Rory O'HanlonRory O'Hanlon (Cavan-Monaghan, Ceann Comhairle)
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The Chair has ruled on the matter, Deputy. It has been the practice since the establishment of the State that questions appropriate to line Ministers should be addressed to line Ministers.

Photo of Caoimhghín Ó CaoláinCaoimhghín Ó Caoláin (Cavan-Monaghan, Sinn Fein)
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I want to talk about the programme for Government. I am asking a question about the detail which the programme for Government states regarding health care delivery. One of the essential pillars——

Photo of Rory O'HanlonRory O'Hanlon (Cavan-Monaghan, Ceann Comhairle)
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The Chair has ruled on the matter. I call the Taoiseach to reply.

Photo of Caoimhghín Ó CaoláinCaoimhghín Ó Caoláin (Cavan-Monaghan, Sinn Fein)
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Let me conclude, Ceann Comhairle. I asked the Taoiseach to confirm not only the Government's commitment in respect of the areas I have addressed but also that he will advise the House it is also his commitment to ensure that all citizens have equal access to all care provision under the aegis of the Department of Health and Children. I speak specifically about cancer services.

Photo of Rory O'HanlonRory O'Hanlon (Cavan-Monaghan, Ceann Comhairle)
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The Deputy need not go any further.

Photo of Bertie AhernBertie Ahern (Dublin Central, Fianna Fail)
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In answer to the Deputy, that is precisely across the range. Without going into detail, the question of the consultants' contract is the central issue.

In terms of staff, resources, capital, the professions, nobody in the House can argue against the significant funding increases the Government has invested in those areas. There are 5,000 or 6,000 extra nurses. The Deputy referred to the cancer service. A significant number of additional consultants and related paramedical staff have been brought into the service. The statistics show an improvement in the survival rates for people under 65 by 15% in recent years. The units have been set up on a nation-wide basis.

Photo of Caoimhghín Ó CaoláinCaoimhghín Ó Caoláin (Cavan-Monaghan, Sinn Fein)
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They are not set up.

Photo of Bertie AhernBertie Ahern (Dublin Central, Fianna Fail)
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Eight of the 14 units are in existence and six are being developed. There have been significant achievements in those areas.

Photo of Caoimhghín Ó CaoláinCaoimhghín Ó Caoláin (Cavan-Monaghan, Sinn Fein)
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Radiation oncology.

Photo of Bertie AhernBertie Ahern (Dublin Central, Fianna Fail)
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It is very expensive which is the reason an additional €1 billion is being given to the health service this year. Most of that money will be expended on staff. A recent survey showed that nine out of every ten additional health service staff are in front line positions, dealing directly or indirectly with patients. Those commitments are being honoured.

Photo of Fergus O'DowdFergus O'Dowd (Louth, Fine Gael)
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What disagreements exist between the Taoiseach and his partners in respect of fully pursuing An Agreed Programme for Government?

Photo of Rory O'HanlonRory O'Hanlon (Cavan-Monaghan, Ceann Comhairle)
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That does not arise on this question.

Photo of Bertie AhernBertie Ahern (Dublin Central, Fianna Fail)
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I often disagree with my colleagues but not on policy issues and not today anyway.

Photo of Fergus O'DowdFergus O'Dowd (Louth, Fine Gael)
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The PDs agree with the Taoiseach; I will accept that.