Dáil debates

Wednesday, 25 May 2005

10:30 am

Photo of Enda KennyEnda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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I apologise to the House for my late arrival. I was held up by a Fianna Fáil Member.

Photo of Dick RocheDick Roche (Wicklow, Fianna Fail)
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It could be worse. The Deputy could not have been in better company.

Photo of Enda KennyEnda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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I apologise to the Taoiseach. In the last number of weeks I have had the opportunity to attend public meetings in Dublin dealing with antisocial behaviour. At a dozen or so of those meetings it was obvious that there is serious concern among members of the public at the rate of increase in the figures for assaults and so on. Deputy Richard Bruton has released information given to him arising from parliamentary questions which shows that the total number of headline offences in Dublin has increased by 8,700, up 23% since 2000. Serious assaults have almost trebled, up 166% from 12 per week in 2000 to 33 per week at present. On top of that some 40 minor assaults per week are recorded.

Detection rates have fallen sharply. They were down seven points to 32% in 2004 and these lower detection rates mean that 4,200 fewer serious crimes are now being solved. It is perfectly obvious from the figures given to Deputy Bruton that Blanchardstown, Tallaght and Coolock are the areas where most of these crimes are taking place. It is having a serious impact on the quality of life of citizens in Dublin. The growth of crime in these areas alone accounts for 50% of total crime incidence in Dublin. Of equal concern is the fact that detection rates are plummeting. They are now four fifths of what they were four yeas ago. In seven Garda districts the decline in the detection rates is down ten points or more. In one case it is down by 17%. Two Garda districts, Bray and Terenure, now have detection rates of less than one in five for very serious offences.

We have had much bombast, words, waffle and gung-ho from the absent Minister for Justice, Equality and Law Reform concerning how these matters are being dealt with while asserting that criminality, gangland warfare and the rest of it is the sting of a dying wasp. The figures given to Deputy Bruton and released from his Department show that to be a complete and utter contradiction. I want to know what the Government is going to do about this and what plans are afoot to provide the resources for a restructuring of Garda manpower to deal with these incidents. The figures speak for themselves and we are not being given the truth by the Government in dealing with this very serious matter.

Photo of Pádraic McCormackPádraic McCormack (Galway West, Fine Gael)
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They might apply zero tolerance to the man who is Minister.

Photo of Bertie AhernBertie Ahern (Dublin Central, Fianna Fail)
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I can return to the figures in two minutes. Deputy Kenny is giving a list of statistics across some of the areas which is not compatible with the overall figures for the last few years.

Photo of Jim O'KeeffeJim O'Keeffe (Cork South West, Fine Gael)
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That is not true. They are up 35% since 2000.

Photo of Rory O'HanlonRory O'Hanlon (Cavan-Monaghan, Ceann Comhairle)
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Deputy Jim O'Keeffe must allow his leader to hear the answer.

Photo of Bertie AhernBertie Ahern (Dublin Central, Fianna Fail)
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I will come back to that. More importantly, the Deputy has asked what the Government has been doing in this area. We have put additional resources and numbers into the Garda, particularly into some of the areas mentioned such as Blanchardstown, where there has been a particularly difficult crime situation over the last few years. The Garda Síochána, using all its specialist resources, has gone into those areas, set up roadblocks and armed patrols and done house to house searches. It has gone in to break some of the crime gangs in those areas and has had considerable success in the detection and prosecution of criminals and in terms of the numbers of guns recovered and drug seizures. Separate units have been set up to deal with gangland killings. The Minister for Justice, Equality and Law Reform, both this year and last, has provided an enormous increase in Garda overtime in these areas.

Photo of Joan BurtonJoan Burton (Dublin West, Labour)
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There are no community gardaí.

Photo of Bertie AhernBertie Ahern (Dublin Central, Fianna Fail)
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The number of community gardaí has been increased. The number of headline crimes recorded in 2004 compared to 2003 has decreased by 4%, and by 14% overall. These are the figures from the Department of Justice, Equality and Law Reform. Perhaps somebody else is doing a separate set of statistics, but these are the official figures.

Photo of Jim O'KeeffeJim O'Keeffe (Cork South West, Fine Gael)
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They are up 35% since 2000.

Photo of Bertie AhernBertie Ahern (Dublin Central, Fianna Fail)
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The latest figures expose the lie from the Opposition benches that crime rates have increased. They have not.

Photo of Pádraic McCormackPádraic McCormack (Galway West, Fine Gael)
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Where has zero tolerance gone?

Photo of Bertie AhernBertie Ahern (Dublin Central, Fianna Fail)
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The 2004 figures show that despite more precise and more accurate recording of crime by the PULSE system which now includes all statistics, that crime has fallen from about 28.4 incidents per 100,000 of the population some years ago, to 24 per 100,000. It is still too high, but the Garda, in terms of its resources, overtime, manpower and special units, including Operation Anvil, which was launched last week, is doing a good job in these areas. It is not true that they are totally lawless areas.

Photo of Jim O'KeeffeJim O'Keeffe (Cork South West, Fine Gael)
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That is codology.

Photo of Enda KennyEnda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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The Taoiseach deserves some type of accolade for the confusion that comes out in his answers at all times. The source of this information is not some pie in the sky. Rather, it is the reply to a parliamentary question given on Tuesday, 10 May 2005. These are the official statistics from the Department of Justice, Equality and Law Reform as given to Deputy Bruton. For the Taoiseach's information, headline assaults recorded in 2000 and 2004, respectively, are as follows: Blanchardstown — 30 in 2000 and 146 in 2004, an increase of 386%; Bray — 15 in 2000 and 70 in 2004, an increase of 366%. These are true and factual statistics. The recorded headline offences rose from 1,821 to 3,554, an increase of 95%. Coolock is up 66% and Tallaght 64%. These are the official statistics from the Department of Justice, Equality and Law Reform.

The detection rates have fallen. In Donnybrook it is down by 17%, in Santry by 14%, Lucan by 13%, Blackrock and Blanchardstown by 11%, Coolock by 10% and so on. These are the official statistics. What we have from the Government is not zero tolerance, but zero performance. Of the 40,000 public servants recruited since 2000, less than 1% of them have been frontline gardaí to deal with detection rates of all the serious assaults and headline offences imposed and put upon the public. It is not zero tolerance but zero performance.

Deputies:

The Taoiseach is embarrassed.

Photo of Enda KennyEnda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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In 17 out of the 18 Dublin districts headline offences are up and detection rates for offences are down. This is appalling in terms of the Government's ability to ensure the public are protected from vandals, thugs, criminals and gangland warfare. The Taoiseach has failed utterly in this respect.

Photo of Bertie AhernBertie Ahern (Dublin Central, Fianna Fail)
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We have never had more gardaí on the streets than at present. That is a statistical fact.

Photo of David StantonDavid Stanton (Cork East, Fine Gael)
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The Taoiseach is codding himself. He is living in cloud cuckoo land.

Photo of Bertie AhernBertie Ahern (Dublin Central, Fianna Fail)
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The overall figures I am giving are factual. Deputy Kenny can take individual areas and I have already raised the issue about Blanchardstown but that does not take from what I stated, namely that even though there are 400,000 more people in the country, an increase from 3.6 million to 4.04 million, headline crime is down 14%.

Photo of Jim O'KeeffeJim O'Keeffe (Cork South West, Fine Gael)
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No, that is wrong.

Photo of Bertie AhernBertie Ahern (Dublin Central, Fianna Fail)
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Murder and manslaughter is down 13%, sexual assault is down 28%, aggravated burglary crime is down 14%, the figures for theft from the person are down 14% and the figures for robberies from the person are down 14%.

Photo of Jim O'KeeffeJim O'Keeffe (Cork South West, Fine Gael)
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The figures are down from what? The Taoiseach is even misleading himself.

Photo of Rory O'HanlonRory O'Hanlon (Cavan-Monaghan, Ceann Comhairle)
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Allow the Taoiseach to continue without interruption.

Photo of Bertie AhernBertie Ahern (Dublin Central, Fianna Fail)
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There are individual areas where crime is still too high. I do not want to go into the statistics because as long as there is one crime it is a crime too many.

Photo of Enda KennyEnda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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These are not statistics with which we are dealing but people.

Photo of Jim O'KeeffeJim O'Keeffe (Cork South West, Fine Gael)
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The figures were 73,000 in 2000 and 99,000 last year.

Photo of Bertie AhernBertie Ahern (Dublin Central, Fianna Fail)
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Deputy Kenny cannot come into the House and give figures for the overall position that shows that crime levels are up when the overall figures are down.

Photo of Jim O'KeeffeJim O'Keeffe (Cork South West, Fine Gael)
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The figures were 72,000 four years ago and 99,000 last year. Those are the national figures.

Photo of Bertie AhernBertie Ahern (Dublin Central, Fianna Fail)
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The Government will continue to increase the number of gardaí on the street. We have provided for additional overtime, additional resources for specialist units and more prison places for those who are convicted. We have far more prison places now than we had previously, and they are all full. Detection rates cannot be down when that is the case. A criminal justice Bill with tough provisions is before the House and I hope it will be passed this session. The Government will continue to deal with the thugs and vandals who try to upset the life of ordinary, decent people.

Photo of Pádraic McCormackPádraic McCormack (Galway West, Fine Gael)
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Is the Taoiseach near reaching zero yet?

Photo of Pat RabbittePat Rabbitte (Dublin South West, Labour)
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Will the Taoiseach revisit the circumstances depicted in the excellent "Prime Time" programme earlier this week on taxation and how a coach and four is being driven through the tax code to assist the very wealthy and elite in our society in minimising or avoiding paying any tax when the great majority of people who get up at 6.30 a.m. to go work find themselves heavily taxed when one takes into account the number of stealth taxes and charges the Government has introduced? There is great anger among the public at the dismissive manner in which the Taoiseach dealt with this matter yesterday.

I ask the Taoiseach to return, first, to the question of tax exiles and the measure he introduced to facilitate people being out of this country under the 183 day rule but at the same time enjoying the hospitality of this country while not paying tax here in terms of their personal incomes. The Taoiseach seemed to tell me, or I thought he told me, yesterday until I read the record, that the question of the 183 day rule, the residency requirement, would be included in the review, but when I read the Taoiseach's answer it does not state that. I ask him again this morning if the residency qualification is included in the review. There is the question of whether, in the light of ten years' experience, it ought to be restricted or limited in some fashion. The Minister for Finance said it is not and he is quite satisfied with the way it is operating.

Second, a front page story in The Irish Times this morning is about a named company, Irish Ferries, saving €3 million to which it would otherwise have been liable in tax in 2003.

Photo of Rory O'HanlonRory O'Hanlon (Cavan-Monaghan, Ceann Comhairle)
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The Deputy's two minutes are concluded.

Photo of Pat RabbittePat Rabbitte (Dublin South West, Labour)
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Whatever the justification for the tonnage tax system being manifestly exploited in the case of the yacht that is parked in the middle of the Mediterranean, staffed with non-Irish people, disporting itself in the Mediterranean for the rich and powerful, earning an income of €9 million per year and paying no tax virtually to this Exchequer, in the case of Irish Ferries would one not reasonably expect that if there is an argument for the tonnage tax system to continue to exist that at least that company ought to be expected not to be in engaged in shedding Irish workers, deliberately recruiting non-nationals and, as we know from some high profile cases, employing non-nationals at slave rates?

Photo of Rory O'HanlonRory O'Hanlon (Cavan-Monaghan, Ceann Comhairle)
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The Deputy has gone a minute over the time provided.

Photo of Pat RabbittePat Rabbitte (Dublin South West, Labour)
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My colleague, Deputy Howlin, drew attention last October to the fact that the company had decided to lay off 150 staff on the Irish-France routes and to transfer its crewing to a third party agency — in other words, to recruit cheap, non-national labour in breach of the labour regulations and to disemploy Irish workers. Is not the least that we could expect from these companies that are treated so well in terms of our tax code that they would observe high standards in work practices?

Photo of Bertie AhernBertie Ahern (Dublin Central, Fianna Fail)
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On the first issue, there is a major review of all the tax shelters and tax allowances under way. It is my view that as part of that review they all should be looked at. Specifically, in respect of the measure the Deputy raised, as I said yesterday, that has been on the Statute Book for 11 years. Regardless of whether it is working well, it seems that now is a good time to review it. The answer to that question is "Yes", if I was not totally clear on that yesterday. I was informed since yesterday that the Revenue Commissioners confirmed that they are monitoring the application of the non-resident rules in respect of cases being handled by their large case division. The Minister for Finance asked the chairman of the Revenue Commissioners to keep him appraised of any developments in this area arising out of the current monitoring of the position by Revenue. The Minister is expecting an update report from Revenue after these have been examined. That is currently under way.

With regard to the question on shipping, this measure was introduced three years ago in the Finance Act 2002. It was designed to help the Irish shipping sector. Along with other EU countries, the Irish shipping sector faced competition from ships registered in Liberia and similar countries which were crewed by low cost employees. Several EU countries reacted to these developments by introducing a special low tax regime known as tonnage tax under which tax is paid by reference to the tonnage of the ships. The tonnage system was introduced originally by Greece 35 years ago, which has a major merchant shipping fleet. The system currently applies in 11 other EU countries as well as Ireland. The tonnage tax regime for these EU countries has to be cleared by the European Commission for State aid purposes. The European Commission is conscious of protecting the EU shipping sector.

Regarding capital allowances, which Deputy Rabbitte raised, commercial ships have also been entitled to capital allowances. A ship is an item of plant and machinery used in a trade and the capital allowances for plant and machinery are used in lieu of normal commercial depreciation of a business asset. A ship is the main asset of a shipping trade, in the same way as a lorry is the main asset of a haulage business. The existing regime for capital allowances for plant provides that such an asset can be written off at 12.5% over an eight year period. That is how the system works.

I am not dealing with these issues on a day to day basis. Therefore, I do not know if there are abuses. That is the system that provides for this measure. If there is any abuse of the system, I am sure the Revenue Commissioners would examine it.

Photo of Pat RabbittePat Rabbitte (Dublin South West, Labour)
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Can I clarify the question of whether tax exiles are in the review? The Taoiseach said that they should be but then he went on to confuse that review——

Photo of Bertie AhernBertie Ahern (Dublin Central, Fianna Fail)
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I said "Yes".

Photo of Pat RabbittePat Rabbitte (Dublin South West, Labour)
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Let me be clear. The Taoiseach went on and confused the issue with the large cases division of the Revenue that is examining the position of 250 plus high net worth individuals in this jurisdiction. That is a quite distinctly separate issue. The Minister for Finance said in the programme that he was quite happy with the system as it obtained to the tax exiles in terms of residency and that it was reviewed in 1994 and there was no intention to review it again. I want to be clear, is it included in that review that was specified in terms of the instruments that it encompasses? Are tax exiles in it or not?

Second, on the question of a passenger ship, is an examination or investigation taking place on the capacity of a yacht to convert itself into a passenger ship in order to benefit from this?

Photo of Rory O'HanlonRory O'Hanlon (Cavan-Monaghan, Ceann Comhairle)
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The Deputy's minute has concluded.

Photo of Pat RabbittePat Rabbitte (Dublin South West, Labour)
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Will this review be made public well in advance of next year's Finance Bill? Does the Government have a view on an alternative minimum tax whereby nobody, irrespective of the instruments of which they avail, would fail to pay a minimum of their income towards the common good in this jurisdiction? I wish to ask the Taoiseach about instruments——

Photo of Rory O'HanlonRory O'Hanlon (Cavan-Monaghan, Ceann Comhairle)
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The Deputy's time has concluded.

Photo of Pat RabbittePat Rabbitte (Dublin South West, Labour)
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——which drive urban renewal and the investor-led property side of the market. Is he aware that, although we have made many changes over the years, he has never looked at the regulations which are now more than 15 years old in terms of specifying the standards, space, design and so on of many of these apartments? In ten years' time, many of them will be very shabby. We are refusing to change the specifications to require certain standards to be adhered to by investors who are benefiting from the tax breaks available.

Photo of Rory O'HanlonRory O'Hanlon (Cavan-Monaghan, Ceann Comhairle)
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I call the Taoiseach.

Photo of Pat RabbittePat Rabbitte (Dublin South West, Labour)
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I would have finished sooner if the Ceann Comhairle had not interrupted me, as he does every morning.

Photo of Rory O'HanlonRory O'Hanlon (Cavan-Monaghan, Ceann Comhairle)
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Seven minutes are allowed for Leaders' Questions in total. The Deputy is entitled to three minutes but he has taken five and a half minutes. The Chair must try to stay within the Standing Orders laid down.

Photo of Pat RabbittePat Rabbitte (Dublin South West, Labour)
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I will do community service.

Photo of Rory O'HanlonRory O'Hanlon (Cavan-Monaghan, Ceann Comhairle)
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The Chair informs all Deputies when their time has concluded.

Photo of Bertie AhernBertie Ahern (Dublin Central, Fianna Fail)
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I will try to stay within the time allocated. I tried to be clear on this. The review the Minister announced on budget day relates to all the tax relief schemes. Residency is not a tax relief scheme.

Photo of Pat RabbittePat Rabbitte (Dublin South West, Labour)
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That is what I said.

Photo of Bertie AhernBertie Ahern (Dublin Central, Fianna Fail)
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I pointed out to the Deputy that a separate appraisal is being undertaken by the Revenue Commissioners on residency. That report will also be given to the Minister for Finance this year.

Photo of Pat RabbittePat Rabbitte (Dublin South West, Labour)
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The question of tax exiles will not be in the review.

Photo of Bertie AhernBertie Ahern (Dublin Central, Fianna Fail)
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The tax exile matter is not a tax relief scheme.

Photo of Pat RabbittePat Rabbitte (Dublin South West, Labour)
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I said that. It is not in the review.

Photo of Bertie AhernBertie Ahern (Dublin Central, Fianna Fail)
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It is being reviewed by the Revenue Commissioners. I gave the Deputy the answer.

Photo of John O'DonoghueJohn O'Donoghue (Kerry South, Fianna Fail)
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The Deputy is splitting hairs.

Photo of Bertie AhernBertie Ahern (Dublin Central, Fianna Fail)
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I said the Revenue Commissioners have confirmed they are monitoring the application of the non-residence rule. They will report to the Minister. I cannot be clearer than that.

Photo of John O'DonoghueJohn O'Donoghue (Kerry South, Fianna Fail)
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The Deputy is splitting hairs.

Photo of Pat RabbittePat Rabbitte (Dublin South West, Labour)
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The lads can fly out. There is no problem.

Photo of Bertie AhernBertie Ahern (Dublin Central, Fianna Fail)
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The Revenue Commissioners are carrying out a review and they will report back to the Minister who will take action if he believes there is a need for change. If there is no need for change, then he will not take action. That is the position.

Regarding shipping, I do not know if a case is under investigation or if there is any abuse. The rules are clear and the Revenue Commissioners have stringent powers in that area and would use them if anyone was abusing the system. I will not read out the details again.

Apartments and other accommodation are part of the tax relief scheme. Deputy Rabbitte has a point in that many of the apartments built under the tax relief schemes are turning into quite shabby accommodation, particularly in city areas. The schemes were used for rejuvenation purposes. However, if people continue to get tax reliefs in these areas, they could create a difficulty in the future. Many areas have benefited from these tax relief schemes for many years and much useful work has been done but some developments are not up to standard. Areas which have not got that chance should get it. The Minister made that clear in his budget speech.

Photo of Trevor SargentTrevor Sargent (Dublin North, Green Party)
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When travelling around the country I presume the Taoiseach has, from time to time, come across landowners and farmers cursed with the problem of criminals dumping waste illegally on their land. From speaking to people affected, he will know it is not only a case of crops being destroyed, scrap metal proving a hazard for combine harvester operators or otherwise but often the landowner is hauled before court and considered liable. Landowners are asked if they knew about the dumping and how they allowed it to happen.

The Minister of the Environment, Heritage and Local Government, who is priming the Taoiseach for his reply, probably knows I will mention Blessington. In light of the regionally important aquifer, which is in danger of being affected by dumping in the area, will the Taoiseach indicate how a large company such as Cement Roadstone, found with perhaps 300,000 tonnes of waste illegally dumped on its land from perhaps 10,000 truckloads, can claim no knowledge of it and escape prosecution for the crime, whoever carried it out?

Does the Taoiseach regard it as unacceptable and bizarre that planning permission is needed for a finger post sign but that this particular operation does not need it? Planning permission is not required to make an illegal dump legal. We have talked about rules for the rich and the poor. Does the Taoiseach not see a double standard whereby an operation such as this does not need planning permission after an illegal dump and a crime has been discovered?

Will the Taoiseach instruct the Minister for the Environment, Heritage and Local Government not to allow a section 55 procedure which would, effectively, permit a company like Cement Roadstone to be sprung from that particular situation and not even have to apply for planning permission never mind face prosecution which other landowners would face if an illegal dump was found on their land?

Photo of Bertie AhernBertie Ahern (Dublin Central, Fianna Fail)
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As the Deputy knows, a criminal investigation is taking place on waste and on the monitoring of refuse in the Blessington area of west Wicklow. The Minister for the Environment, Heritage and Local Government has informed me the quickest way to achieve a clean up and get action in this area is to use section 55 of the Waste Management Act. That requires those responsible under the Act to clean the site and to fully comply with the Waste Management Act. It is far quicker than trying to get planning permission and trying to use that process. The Minister is quite satisfied that the way to get prompt action is to use section 55 which has all the powers necessary to clean up and manage these sites. That does not take away from the overall monitoring and investigation in the area.

Photo of Trevor SargentTrevor Sargent (Dublin North, Green Party)
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As I expected, the Taoiseach did not respond to the charge that a double standard operates and that a smaller landowner would not be given the generosity of section 55 of the Waste Management Act. I know a number of them who have been hauled before the court. Having discovered illegal waste on their land, they must face the rigours of the law in the course of a criminal investigation.

Will the Taoiseach ask the Minister to end what is effectively a selective approach to illegal dumping and to apply the waste regulations to illegal dumps found before 2002? The Minister is using 2002 as a benchmark but the dump to which I referred was found before that. Is it not reasonable to move back that date and ensure every instance of illegal dumping is covered rather than the more recent ones? Will the Minister look again at that loophole? Section 55 is, effectively, a loophole which means the operator of, or those responsible for, an illegal dump can decide where to locate a legal dump in the future because it regulates the illegal operation which does not need planning permission or to go through the normal site selection. This rewards criminals and must stop.

Photo of Bertie AhernBertie Ahern (Dublin Central, Fianna Fail)
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I do not have enough time to deal with this whole issue. The Minister for the Environment, Heritage and Local Government disagrees totally. He believes the Deputy misunderstands section 55.

Photo of Dan BoyleDan Boyle (Cork South Central, Green Party)
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We do not. One could drive a dozen trucks through it.

Photo of Trevor SargentTrevor Sargent (Dublin North, Green Party)
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The Taoiseach should take it to the Mahon tribunal.

11:00 am

Photo of Bertie AhernBertie Ahern (Dublin Central, Fianna Fail)
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Section 55 requires the person responsible to clean up the site. On the Deputy's point about it being pre-2002, section 60 makes specific directions that it is covered, regardless of the time period. If section 55, which gives directions, does not cover it, section 60, which covers all sites, applies.

Photo of Dan BoyleDan Boyle (Cork South Central, Green Party)
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Why make regulations?

Photo of Bertie AhernBertie Ahern (Dublin Central, Fianna Fail)
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That is the view of the Minister and the company mentioned earlier denies that it is responsible for the dumping.

Photo of Trevor SargentTrevor Sargent (Dublin North, Green Party)
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Of course it does. Would not the Taoiseach do likewise?

Photo of Bertie AhernBertie Ahern (Dublin Central, Fianna Fail)
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That is a matter for the monitoring process which follows. Section 55 requires the guilty party to clean the site fully and if it is an old site section 60 covers it. The Minister can and has made specific directions.

Photo of Trevor SargentTrevor Sargent (Dublin North, Green Party)
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The question could take up more time in the Mahon tribunal.