Dáil debates

Wednesday, 18 May 2005

1:00 pm

Photo of John PerryJohn Perry (Sligo-Leitrim, Fine Gael)
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Question 79: To ask the Minister for the Environment, Heritage and Local Government his policy on the proposed long-term underground storage of nuclear waste in the UK; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [16453/05]

Photo of Dick RocheDick Roche (Wicklow, Fianna Fail)
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The policy of all governments of all political persuasions here, since the late 1970s, has been opposed to the British nuclear industry and all its aspects, the manner in which it operates and, in particular, slipshod operations. A review of the long-term options for radioactive waste management in the UK is currently being undertaken by the Committee on Radioactive Waste Management, an independent body established in November 2003 by the Secretary of State for Environment, Food and Rural Affairs, along with the Environment Ministers for Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland. The committee's main task is to recommend, by July 2006, how to manage the significant stocks of radioactive waste held in the United Kingdom.

Ireland has significant and valid concerns about this issue. We have accepted a number of invitations to participate in various consultative fora put in place during the first phase of the committee's work. Officials from my Department attended its fourth public meeting in January 2004 and participated in an interactive workshop held in December last. In February 2005, departmental officials, together with a senior scientific officer from the Radiological Protection Institute of Ireland or RPII, met the chairman of the Committee on Radioactive Waste Management. My Department has also contributed on a number of occasions to written consultation procedures put in place by the committee as part of its extensive stakeholder engagement process.

My policy is to monitor closely the work of this committee and to use the consultation process to articulate the views of the Irish Government on any proposals for the management and disposal of radioactive waste in the UK. My officials have consistently impressed upon the committee that, given our proximity to the UK, our ongoing concerns and our interest in the management of radioactive waste in the UK, Ireland considers it has a significant interest in the issues under deliberation. My officials have also emphasised that Ireland is a unique stakeholder with distinct responsibilities in terms of protecting its population from the risks of ionising radiation and for planning protective and remedial measures in respect of such risks.

Additional information not given on the floor of the House.

A primary consideration in addressing waste management issues of any origin or type must involve the question of waste reduction. This is particularly relevant for the nuclear industry given the nature and toxicity of the wastes arising. The role of reprocessing within the industry requires particular consideration in this regard. However, I understand that the remit of the committee does not extend to this issue and, on this basis, the issues raised and currently being addressed by the committee must be considered less than complete.

The committee drew up a shortlist last February which comprises four options. These are interim surface storage, deep underground disposal, phased deep underground disposal and near surface disposal. The committee also drew up plans for detailed assessment of these options and has since invited comments on all these proposals, including how the various options might be implemented. Following this phase of the process, the committee will move into the main assessment stage during the autumn.

Comments have been invited on the shortlisted options and my Department will respond to this invitation in due course. On behalf of the Government, my Department will continue to engage proactively with the committee to articulate clearly the views and concerns of Ireland about the development of long-term radioactive waste management options in the UK to ensure that such options do not compromise the health or environment of Irish people.

Photo of Fergus O'DowdFergus O'Dowd (Louth, Fine Gael)
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At a meeting last week, the representative of the Radiological Protection Institute of Ireland said that it was decision time on the long-term storage of radioactive waste not just in the UK but also in Ireland. That gave rise to concern because, as the Minister said, successive governments have already made that decision. We are absolutely and implacably opposed to the long-term underground storage of radioactive waste. Will the Minister confirm that? He said it is his policy to make representations but is it his policy absolutely to oppose it?

Photo of Dick RocheDick Roche (Wicklow, Fianna Fail)
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The Deputy need have no concern about this. There is no change in my or the Government's view. We are opposed to it. We are engaged in this process because it is the process that was established by the UK. We are making a strong case there. A primary consideration in addressing waste issues, of any origin or type, is waste reduction. This is particularly relevant given all that has been said and what we hear about that industry at present and given the nature and toxicity of the waste it produces. The role of reprocessing in the industry requires particular consideration. The remit of the UK committee does not extend to this and, on that basis, the issues raised and currently being addressed by the committee must be considered less than complete. I share the Deputy's concern about the remit of the committee.

There is no change in policy. I am as implacably opposed, in this regard, to this industry as any of my predecessors.

Photo of Fergus O'DowdFergus O'Dowd (Louth, Fine Gael)
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I welcome that. Will the Minister clarify his position with the RPII, lest an untoward misunderstanding arise? I do not know why that comment was made at the committee meeting but it worries me. The Minister has clarified the position but I urge him to make it clear to the RPII.

Photo of Emmet StaggEmmet Stagg (Kildare North, Labour)
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I welcome the Minister's statement that his position has not changed from that of previous governments because it was not entirely clear until now. Is the Minister aware of the newspaper reports today concerning the massive spillage of nuclear waste at THORP, which will directly impact on the storage of waste? A total of 20 tonnes of plutonium were spilt. The Minister, in response to that crisis, said there was no danger to the environment or to the Irish people. I disagree with him. If that type of accident can occur in a relatively new plant, other accidents could occur.

Today's reports suggest that the THORP plant will never reopen as a result of the near impossibility of clearing up the 20 tonnes of spillage. Will the Minister comment on that? Given that he was aware of this in April, will he explain what he was told then and will he now urgently seek clarification from the British authorities about what happened? The RPII was given some information but not all of it, as it told the committee last week. Will the Minister find out what happened and tell the Irish people? Obviously, the British authorities are telling lies again, and I use the word "lies" advisedly, to their own people and authorities and to the Irish Government.

Photo of Fergus O'DowdFergus O'Dowd (Louth, Fine Gael)
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On a point of order, I have no difficulty with the Deputy's question but it is exactly the same as my Question No. 88. Can I respond after the Minister replies? Otherwise, there is no point putting it down.

Séamus Pattison (Carlow-Kilkenny, Labour)
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We may or may not reach Question No. 88.

Photo of Dick RocheDick Roche (Wicklow, Fianna Fail)
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Deputy O'Dowd can be certain that I will clarify the position. If the Deputy wishes to send me the clipping, because I am not familiar with it, I will ensure he gets a written response to it.

Photo of Fergus O'DowdFergus O'Dowd (Louth, Fine Gael)
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So the Minister's press statement is wrong.

Photo of Dick RocheDick Roche (Wicklow, Fianna Fail)
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My press statement is a different matter.

Photo of Fergus O'DowdFergus O'Dowd (Louth, Fine Gael)
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It is wrong.

Photo of Dick RocheDick Roche (Wicklow, Fianna Fail)
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No, it is not and that point was adverted to in Deputy Stagg's question. Deputy Stagg is correct that there has been a significant problem in THORP. We issued two press statements. The initial one made clear what information we had received and put it on the record for all Members and for the public. However, following investigation and analysis of the problem, there was a second set of data which we have received. It is interesting to observe that at least one other EU member state has been in touch with the British and has complained that we get higher levels of information than anybody else. That is true, to be fair to the British.

The point raised by Deputy Stagg is valid. This incident has been reassessed and has now gone to level three. When an incident occurs it must be reported and assessed. The assessment resulted in it being ratcheted up to level three. I am not sure if the Deputy is correct that it might close the plant down, although that might be a solution.

Photo of Emmet StaggEmmet Stagg (Kildare North, Labour)
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I am not saying that. I am referring to today's British newspapers.

Photo of Dick RocheDick Roche (Wicklow, Fianna Fail)
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I have learned how to take British newspapers.

Photo of Fergus O'DowdFergus O'Dowd (Louth, Fine Gael)
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Can I ask the Minister about a critical issue mentioned in my question?

Séamus Pattison (Carlow-Kilkenny, Labour)
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The Deputy must be very brief.

Photo of Fergus O'DowdFergus O'Dowd (Louth, Fine Gael)
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A representative of BNFL was quoted in The Irish Times as saying the danger was zero out of seven while the RPII, which did not have all the information, responded that it was one out of seven. However, the Minister correctly stated it was a serious incident. The key issue is that it took 25 days for that information to be made public. The Minister's statement quoted the board of BNFL on this, not the RPII, which is the authoritative body in this regard. The information did not get out and that is not acceptable. BNFL has told a pack of untruths at all times on this issue.

Photo of Dick RocheDick Roche (Wicklow, Fianna Fail)
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This is an important issue. The regrading of the leak from level 1 to level 3 is the end of the assessment process.

Photo of Eamon GilmoreEamon Gilmore (Dún Laoghaire, Labour)
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When did that happen? That is not good enough.

Photo of Fergus O'DowdFergus O'Dowd (Louth, Fine Gael)
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It took 25 days for the information to be made public.

Photo of Dick RocheDick Roche (Wicklow, Fianna Fail)
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That is what has been happening for the past 20 days.

Photo of Fergus O'DowdFergus O'Dowd (Louth, Fine Gael)
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If an accident happened, we would not know about it, we would all be dead.

Photo of Dick RocheDick Roche (Wicklow, Fianna Fail)
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We knew on day one.

Photo of Eamon GilmoreEamon Gilmore (Dún Laoghaire, Labour)
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Somebody is hiding information, either the Minister or BNFL.

Photo of Fergus O'DowdFergus O'Dowd (Louth, Fine Gael)
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The Minister is being manipulated by BNFL.

Photo of Dick RocheDick Roche (Wicklow, Fianna Fail)
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The idea that BNFL is manipulating me is ludicrous beyond belief.

Photo of Fergus O'DowdFergus O'Dowd (Louth, Fine Gael)
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The company is manipulating the media and the information stream. The Minister is being conned into believing there is no problem.

Photo of Emmet StaggEmmet Stagg (Kildare North, Labour)
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The Minister is cosying up to the Brits again.