Joan Burton (Dublin West, Labour)
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Question 5: To ask the Minister for Finance if he will make a statement on his address to the lunch of Financial Services Ireland on 21 February 2005, particularly his reported statement that the compensation bill arising from the Supreme Court decision on the Health (Amendment) (No. 2) Bill 2004 would result in lower spending elsewhere; the anticipated amount by which spending will have to be reduced; and if specific areas have been identified for such reduction. [7297/05]

Brian Cowen (Laois-Offaly, Fianna Fail)
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The Supreme Court decision on the Health (Amendment) (No. 2) Bill has significant expenditure implications. The issue of repaying the money has been referred to a special Cabinet sub-committee comprising the Taoiseach, the Tánaiste, the Attorney General and myself.

The Revised Estimates Volume, which I recently published, provides for a 13% increase in estimated health expenditure in 2005. Repayments will be made from the Health Service Executive Vote and, as made clear in the recent Revised Estimates Volume, a Supplementary Estimate will be brought forward for the costs arising in 2005 on foot of the recent Supreme Court decision. There will be no cutbacks in the Estimate for the health services this year or in other departmental Estimates to pay for this Supplementary Estimate.

Given the number of people involved and the complexity in calculating the repayments due, it is likely that the repayment of moneys will take time. Claims falling for payment after 2005 will be a charge on the Vote for subsequent years and the required funding will be accommodated within the overall spending plans for those years.

Joan Burton (Dublin West, Labour)
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Is the Minister aware of the Tánaiste and Minister for Health and Children's statement earlier that she has been advised 300,000 people affected by the Supreme Court ruling are likely to claim? Has the Minister estimated the cost of these claims? He commented on 21 February that the cost would be approximately €500 million. However, the Tánaiste and Minister for Health and Children's statement indicates a much higher figure of between €1 billion and €3 billion. Has the Minister had an opportunity to examine the costing? He stated prior to the Financial Services Ireland lunch that the Supreme Court ruling would result in lower spending elsewhere in the health service. He contradicted himself in his reply in regard to 2005 by stating he will introduce a Supplementary Estimate. I would like him to reconcile those statements. Has he identified the areas in which there will be lower spending? When is that likely to occur?

Brian Cowen (Laois-Offaly, Fianna Fail)
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I am glad to clarify that I never made those comments. The Deputy has referred to an inaccurate interpretation of what I said, which related to questions I was asked prior to the lunch referred to by the Deputy. I stated the blindingly obvious. I was asked who pays for it; the taxpayer pays. I was asked what impact this would have on future spending; I replied that the amount to pay for this could have been used in other areas. That was interpreted subsequently as a statement about specific cuts, which were never mentioned. I made four attempts to have it corrected and it was finally reasonably well corrected by the following day. People have the tapes. It was an incorrect interpretation. I was asked a question and I stated the blindingly obvious. I never mentioned a figure on this matter because I do not know what the figure is nor does the Department. That will not be known until one tries to quantify what is involved. People can make guesstimates but I have no intention of doing so.

In addition, a number of families may not claim refunds because they were happy with the service provided and do not have a problem.

Paul McGrath (Westmeath, Fine Gael)
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There will not be too many.

Brian Cowen (Laois-Offaly, Fianna Fail)
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The Deputy will be surprised.

Paul McGrath (Westmeath, Fine Gael)
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Few people will look a gift horse in the mouth and turn back.

Brian Cowen (Laois-Offaly, Fianna Fail)
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A number of people commented on radio in the aftermath of the Supreme Court ruling that they had no intention of claiming. I do not suggest how many will do so but families will come to their own conclusions as to whether they wish to claim. I am not commenting on whether they should but some people are happy with the service and may not claim. I know people who feel that way about it.

Paul McGrath (Westmeath, Fine Gael)
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I also know people who are happy with the service but I do not know that they will look a gift horse in the mouth.

Brian Cowen (Laois-Offaly, Fianna Fail)
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Those who are entitled to claim will be paid. We will seek to devise as expeditious a way as possible of providing for what is due to them. We are still considering this at Cabinet based on legal advice and decisions must be taken on the logistics involved.

Joan Burton (Dublin West, Labour)
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Does the Minister accept the Tánaiste and Minister for Health and Children's statement earlier that there are 300,000 potential claimants? If so, does he agree the sum involved, regardless of whether everybody claims, will be significantly higher than first estimated? He stated this will have an impact on health spending. Has he identified the areas on which there will be an impact, particularly since a significantly higher number of claimants is involved?

In the context of the trolleys and the accident and emergency disaster, many people are concerned about the implications of the Minister's statement of 21 March for health services.

Brian Cowen (Laois-Offaly, Fianna Fail)
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The purpose of Question Time is to clarify those situations, and despite my clarification, the Deputy is seeking to continue misrepresenting my position. It was stated in this House by the Tánaiste, confirmed by me in an interview when attending the ECOFIN meeting the week before the interview to which the Deputy referred and has been made clear by the Government that we will introduce a Supplementary Estimate regarding that matter this year. A Supplementary Estimate does not impact on the current Revised Estimates Volume which has been published.

Joan Burton (Dublin West, Labour)
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For 2005.

Brian Cowen (Laois-Offaly, Fianna Fail)
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That is the position, and when I am asked about this situation, I presume that people have taken on board the clear Government position stated by the Tánaiste in this House last week. I was asked the following week who pays for it; the taxpayer does. I said that the impact would be as follows. Whatever liability the State is deemed to owe families, estates or people who are still alive, we will pay according to the law and the money will be diverted from other purposes. That much is a statement of the blindingly obvious. That was the generality of the statement; no more specifics were involved. It was subsequently interpreted in the way that the Deputy has suggested, and as I have said, that is not my position. Neither did I state that on that occasion or any other.

Regarding the question of Estimates, as I have said, only guesstimates have been mentioned on this matter hitherto. We are not able to estimate accurately what it would mean. Regarding the figure that the Tánaiste mentioned yesterday, if the Deputy counts back over the period, she will see that the numbers of people who have come through the system are estimated, according to the figures that I saw, at approximately 275,000. What amount will be due to any of those people is a matter still to be decided based on legal advice and is being considered by the Government. That is the exact overall situation, and there is no other. Further Supplementary Estimates or payments beyond this year will be taken in the normal course of events based on the resources available. As the Deputy is aware, in my Budget Statement I estimated 5% growth in the economy this year.