Eamon Ryan (Dublin South, Green Party)
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Question 94: To ask the Minister for Transport the role his Department will play in the possible planning of new orbital motorways around Dublin; the work which has been done to set out the design, cost and possible timescale for the building of such roads; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [5090/05]

Martin Cullen (Waterford, Fianna Fail)
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I assume the Deputy's question refers to the concept of a Dublin outer orbital route. Strategic Planning Guidelines for the Greater Dublin Area 1999 and the Dublin Transportation Office document, Platform for Change 2000, identified a possible need for a Dublin outer orbital route to link Drogheda, Navan and Naas. More recently, Regional Planning Guidelines for the Greater Dublin Area 2004 made provision for the development of such a route in the medium to long term on the basis that the centres in question would be strengthened by the provision of decent links which do not pass through the Dublin city area.

A 2001 strategic study commissioned by the NRA concluded that a Dublin outer orbital route had significant merit and was feasible on engineering and environmental grounds. Apart from identifying a possible corridor for an outer orbital, the 2001 report did not consider route options, appropriate road type and costs as it constituted simply a high-level strategic study of the concept. Detailed consideration of these and other issues, including spatial planning, land use, environmental impact and the appropriate type and class of road to be provided, will be the subject of further studies.

I have asked the NRA to carry out these further studies and consider the proposed route as part of future road infrastructure development plans. The NRA will take into account in its deliberations the national spatial strategy, regional planning guidelines and the planning and traffic implications of the route for greater Dublin and neighbouring regions. The proposal will also be considered in the context of the ten-year transport investment framework being prepared within my Department.

Eamon Ryan (Dublin South, Green Party)
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History tells us that if we ask the NRA whether it is a good idea to build a road, it will inevitably say "Yes". As it is a road building agency, its function is to build roads. The Minister's Department should plan transport in this city. I contend we have no planning of a proper transport system for the city as evidenced by the fact that much as one might think of the southside as the land of milk and honey, it does not work because the road system the Government has put in place does not function. I do not want to know what the NRA's answer to a question would be because I know what it would say. I want to know when the Minister's Department will begin to provide joined-up thinking in transport and make a decision as to whether public transport or yet more roads will provide a solution which works.

Does the Minister agree that the plan to widen the M50 to an eight-lane highway will not work, as the Taoiseach acknowledges? Road building cannot solve the transport problems of this city as traffic merely increases as the capacity of a road expands. When will we learn that lesson and begin to invest in public transport instead of roads? When will we stop allowing the National Roads Authority to set the country's transport policy?

Martin Cullen (Waterford, Fianna Fail)
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I am not sure what question the Deputy is putting.

Eamon Ryan (Dublin South, Green Party)
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When will the Government plan transport?

Martin Cullen (Waterford, Fianna Fail)
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Clearly, he has not listened for the last half hour to the debate between the other Deputies and me.

Eamon Ryan (Dublin South, Green Party)
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I was embarrassed listening to it.

Martin Cullen (Waterford, Fianna Fail)
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The debate centred on the provision of public transport in and around the Dublin area.

Eamon Ryan (Dublin South, Green Party)
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It was nothing but waffle.

Martin Cullen (Waterford, Fianna Fail)
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If the Deputy's friends and colleagues did not hold up every development in the country, particularly the M50, we might be much further down the road to satisfying the needs of the public.

Eamon Ryan (Dublin South, Green Party)
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The Minister is holding up the metro and the public transport provision which would solve the problem.

Séamus Pattison (Carlow-Kilkenny, Labour)
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Order please.

Martin Cullen (Waterford, Fianna Fail)
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I reject fully Deputy Eamon Ryan's assertion that there is a lack of proper thinking. Clearly, there is very good thinking in this area in which regard I acknowledge the bodies engaged in the process with me and my departmental officials.

Róisín Shortall (Dublin North West, Labour)
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In that case, why is there traffic gridlock?

Martin Cullen (Waterford, Fianna Fail)
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There is no question that it is evidence of the growth of the economy in the last few years.

Eamon Ryan (Dublin South, Green Party)
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It is the car-based transport system.

Séamus Pattison (Carlow-Kilkenny, Labour)
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Order please.

Martin Cullen (Waterford, Fianna Fail)
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No country could have provided the level of infrastructure Ireland required due to the pace and suddenness of the growth in the economy.

Eamon Ryan (Dublin South, Green Party)
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Zurich, Barcelona, Madrid and Helsinki did.

Martin Cullen (Waterford, Fianna Fail)
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The only thing that is sinking is the Deputy and his colleagues. If they would sink out of the way and let us get on with building the roads and putting in the bus and rail network, we would all be in a much better position. I hope that when we announce the ten-year package which will contain a tremendous solution for Dublin and many other parts of the country, the Green Party will for once be supportive of the investment.

Eamon Ryan (Dublin South, Green Party)
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What happens to the ten-year fairytale if the Government is not re-elected, something to which we all look forward? What possible validity can a ten-year plan have when it requires the imprimatur of the people to decide who will be in Government in ten years time? Does the Minister believe there is a need for a greater Dublin transport and planning authority to implement the joined-up thinking to which he referred but which the Government has never addressed?

The Minister said that before he could present a project to Cabinet, he had to ensure it was robust and would work. Why is he, his Department and the NRA presenting a project to widen the M50 which the NRA and everyone else acknowledges will not work? Why does the Minister contend that public transport projects cannot be presented until every detail has been examined while it is full steam ahead in the area of roads which are prioritised in every instance whether or not they are expected to work? It does not seem to matter that traffic modelling demonstrates there will be absolute chaos on the M50. The solution is another orbital road while the regional planning guidelines refer to a further orbital road beyond that one. When will the Government reject road building solutions and begin to fund public transport? It should be this year rather than in ten years time.

Martin Cullen (Waterford, Fianna Fail)
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I question what solutions the Deputy has for transport.

Eamon Ryan (Dublin South, Green Party)
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The metro, a rail interconnector, two or three more Luas lines and the western rail corridor.

Séamus Pattison (Carlow-Kilkenny, Labour)
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Please allow the Minister to speak.

Martin Cullen (Waterford, Fianna Fail)
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He does not want any roads and does not believe in any investment in public transport. Clearly, the Green Party has no interest in Platform for Change 2000, the Dublin Transportation Office, Iarnród Éireann or the RPA. All of the bodies which have proposals on the table will exist irrespective of who is in Government to work with them.

Eamon Ryan (Dublin South, Green Party)
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All I have heard is waffle about them for years.

Martin Cullen (Waterford, Fianna Fail)
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The Green Party's only platform is to object to anything being done in the name of transport. When it comes to making decisions, the Green Party is sadly lacking.

Eamon Ryan (Dublin South, Green Party)
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We promoted the Luas for years before the Government. The Minister's comments are nothing but waffle.