Fergus O'Dowd (Louth, Fine Gael)
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Question 55: To ask the Minister for the Environment, Heritage and Local Government the status of the Government's plans for electronic voting; when he will make a decision on the findings of the Commission on Electronic Voting; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [4201/05]

Dick Roche (Wicklow, Fianna Fail)
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The Electoral (Amendment) Act 2004 confirms the policy objective of electronic voting and counting at Irish elections and that maintains the mandate to my Department from the Oireachtas to work towards implementation of this objective.

In this context, my Department is developing, in parallel with the continuing work of the Commission on Electronic Voting, a programme for further assessment, testing and validation which is intended to address the concerns raised in the commission's interim report published last April and in its more detailed first report published in December on the secrecy and accuracy of the electronic voting and counting system.

The objective of this programme will be to demonstrate to the commission and the public that the electronic voting system, which was selected following detailed assessment of the requirements to be met in Irish electoral conditions and the holding of an open international tender competition, is suitable to be used in Irish elections. I am giving full consideration to the views of the commission and will ensure its analysis will inform and guide the programme of further assessment, testing and validation of the system.

I intend, therefore, that all the commission's recommendations for action should be appropriately addressed in the work ahead. The timing of the further use of the system is dependent on the progress made with this programme of work and the dates on which future polls may be held.

Fergus O'Dowd (Louth, Fine Gael)
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Is it not a fact that this whole saga has been an appalling waste of €52 million of public funds? Is it not a fact that there is no confidence in the system? People are extremely concerned about that, about the waste of money and that the Minister who wasted that money, Deputy Cullen, did not listen to Members of this House who urged him to reflect before he went ahead — bull-headed in his desire to waste this money.

Given that there is no confidence in this system and that the machines cannot be adapted, it is time to say this system cannot work. The fact the Minister cannot give us a date in respect of the Meath and North Kildare by-elections, the referendum on the EU constitution or the next general election shows he does not have confidence in the system and is not prepared to test it. The one thing needed and which is missing is a voter verifiable audit trail. Without that, this system is a non-starter.

Dick Roche (Wicklow, Fianna Fail)
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The Deputy is correct to suggest that until confidence is established in the system, I will not advocate testing it. The initial comments, however, are a tiny bit rich because one must remember that most of the political parties, if not all, had some positive things to say about this system.

Eamon Gilmore (Dún Laoghaire, Labour)
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Very little.

Dick Roche (Wicklow, Fianna Fail)
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Deputy O'Dowd's party published a good leaflet on the issue in Meath. It is easy with hindsight to ask certain questions.

The issue of a voter verifiable audit trail, VVAT, is not the only one. It is worth pointing out that there is no national system where VVAT is in operation. I concede this is an area where it is necessary to make haste slowly because it concerns the level of confidence people have in the system. The Deputy is quite right that a degree of damage has been done to confidence in the system. However, I do not believe the system has been so undermined that it could not work in the future.

Fergus O'Dowd (Louth, Fine Gael)
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It is clear the Minister cannot make haste slowly in respect of a voter verifiable audit trail. That cannot be done. Page 363 of the commission's report makes it clear that these machines cannot be used for this purpose. Based on what he has said, does the Minister not believe he must abandon these machines because they cannot produce the results people want to prove they voted in a particular way? He must scrap these machines, buys new ones or go back to the old electoral system. Will the Minister provide clarity?

Dick Roche (Wicklow, Fianna Fail)
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The Deputy is quite right in that I will not forecast a date by which we can move to the next stage of trial. I do not agree with the hypothesis underlying the Deputy's question that a VVAT is an absolute sine qua non. It is not used elsewhere and, initially, it was not a key policy issue of concern arising in the context of electronic voting. As the Deputy and anybody who goes to the trouble of reading the literature will be aware — there is significant literature which one can access through the web — not everybody is necessarily sold on the concept of VVAT and there are certainly very practical difficulties.

Fergus O'Dowd (Louth, Fine Gael)
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Page 363 of the commission's report states that this system is not physically capable of modification to provide a full audit trail without unrealistic costs. If one goes down the road of a voter verifiable audit trail, it means these machines are useless.

Dick Roche (Wicklow, Fianna Fail)
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The Deputy should remember there are many contentions on both sides. In fact, in submissions attached to the report, many extreme statements are made on issues. There are different views among the specialists in this area. A VVAT is not universally regarded as a sine qua non of any voting system.

Fergus O'Dowd (Louth, Fine Gael)
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It is a critical one for confidence. People must have confidence in the system, and the Minister knows that.