Tom Hayes (Tipperary South, Fine Gael)
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Question 11: To ask the Minister for Education and Science if she will report on the physical education syllabus in secondary schools; her plans to make physical education an examinable subject at second level; and if she will make a statement on the matter. [2981/05]

Liam Twomey (Wexford, Fine Gael)
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Question 40: To ask the Minister for Education and Science if she will report on the physical education syllabus in primary schools; her plans to provide adequate equipment for physical education at primary level; and if she will make a statement on the matter. [2974/05]

Mary Hanafin (Dún Laoghaire, Fianna Fail)
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I propose to take Questions Nos. 11 and 40 together.

At primary level, physical education is one of the seven curriculum areas within the primary school curriculum which was revised in 1999. A minimum of one hour of physical education per week is recommended for all primary school pupils. In regard to equipment, the position is that this is a cost which falls to be met from the capitation grant paid towards the running costs of schools. In respect of facilities, many primary schools have a general purposes room and practically all schools have outdoor play areas which are used for teaching different aspects of the physical education programme. In addition, many schools use adjacent facilities such as public parks, playing fields and swimming pools. Going forward, the provision of multi-purpose space for primary schools will continue to be considered within the design brief for new schools and renovation and extension projects. This will be done in the context of available resources and the published criteria for prioritising school building projects.

At second level, while physical education is not a mandatory subject, it should form part of the curriculum. The programme that each school plans and delivers should be based on the Department's approved syllabi and the teaching hours should be registered on the school timetable. The time recommended for physical education is two hours per week.

The phasing in of a revised syllabus at junior cycle level for physical education — non-examination — commenced in September 2003. PE halls are integrated into overall plans in the case of new second level school building projects and extensions. In addition, generic templates are being developed to standardise the construction of PE halls in second level schools which do not have PE halls or a major capital project.

The syllabi at primary and second level have been developed on the understanding that facilities available in schools vary. Consequently, they offer flexibility regarding the physical activities undertaken so that each school can design a programme that can be delivered using the resources and supports available to it. No timescale for implementation has been decided upon for introduction of physical education as an examination subject.

Olwyn Enright (Laois-Offaly, Fine Gael)
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I thank the Minister for her reply. Does the Minister intend to make physical education a mandatory subject at second level? I am not too concerned in this regard because I believe the majority of students at second level engage in PE.

Is the Minister of the opinion that the one hour of PE per week at primary level is sufficient? It may be appropriate in the early stages of primary education but what about when children go into fifth and sixth class? There are many schools which, in light of the type of weather we get in Ireland, are not in a position to offer one hour of PE per week. A large number of schools use their GP rooms as classrooms, while others do not have GP rooms. Does the Minister envisage a situation where applications by these schools for GP rooms to allow them to provide physical education will be considered? If the desire to engage in PE is not developed in children at primary level, they are hardly likely to take it up at second level. Is the Minister of the opinion that this may be a greater issue for female students at primary level who may not be in a position to participate in sports outside school hours at the same level as boys or that many of the team sports etc., available are slightly more geared towards boys, although I accept that the position is changing? Does she believe girls are not necessarily able to avail of the same opportunities and that these should be provided in school?

Mary Hanafin (Dún Laoghaire, Fianna Fail)
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I am not so sure the weather is so bad in Ireland that people cannot get out that much. We have just had the mildest winter in years. However, notwithstanding that, I have no immediate plans to make PE an exam subject. It is important that the degree of flexibility currently in place should be availed of, using the talents of the staff as well, while recognising that very many schools are involved in sport, quite apart from PE, whether it is Gaelic games, hockey, basketball or whatever. People give much of their time to such activities.

As regards PE halls, they are now being included as part and parcel of major extensions and in new schools. This is very important. We have had a programme for last year carrying on into 2005 of some PE halls being developed. These will be used as a model to determine how we can progress further. There is much demand from schools around the country. Primary schools that are simply looking for general purpose space would neither fit into band 1 or band 2 at present. We obviously have to meet the need for basic classroom accommodation and ancillary work that is required. However, under the devolved scheme we find that a number of schools have been imaginative in the manner in which they use the money, topped up perhaps with local fund-raising, so that these types of facility are being improved. Did the Deputy have another question?

Olwyn Enright (Laois-Offaly, Fine Gael)
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The Minister has covered it. It was about access to sports for girls and boys.

Mary Hanafin (Dún Laoghaire, Fianna Fail)
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I know this will be a source of debate within the Department's building unit, but as regards the PE halls that have been developed, the Deputy may be aware a number of them have a balcony, which is enormously expensive in the context of a building programme. I understand from girls, however, that it is very successful because that is where the fitness suites are located. The girls are starting to use that area and of course it is cut off from the rest of the school and from people down below who might be using the sports facilities. That is something I shall have to keep in mind for the future, even though it adds substantially to building costs. I have always been conscious of the fact that teenage girls do not like to do PE. It obviously has to do with age, self-esteem and all of those other matters and perhaps the shower facilities in schools. We should work on anything that encourages them to be fitter.

Paul Gogarty (Dublin Mid West, Green Party)
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The Minister is aware, however, that to engage in physical activity not only can help to set one up for the rest of one's life but can assist with increased academic performance, given the enhanced cardiovascular element. Will she acknowledge that there is an urgent need in second level for PE to be made mandatory to some degree, possibly as a subject in the first three years, which would, at least get students involved? Once they get involved they will stay involved.

As regards primary level, she has already mentioned that progress is being made on PE halls in new buildings. What are her plans for smaller schools in rural areas which are in danger of closure? As I have previously flagged as regards integrated partnerships between community and sports bodies etc., there is scope for the available space in some school buildings to be used as a multi-purpose facility. The cost could be shared among the local authority, community bodies, the sports councils and the Department of Education and Science in a way that would not affect the safety of the children concerned, but which could be cost-effective in providing facilities not provided by a school.

Mary Hanafin (Dún Laoghaire, Fianna Fail)
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As regards PE as a subject for the junior certificate, it is expected that it will be integrated into the curriculum. I am conscious of not overloading the curriculum even further with another exam subject. It might have to be looked at in the overall reform context. I confess I am increasingly conscious of schools that are looking for PE halls on the basis that other schools in a town have them. That has happened at least twice recently. I wonder whether we will ever arrive at a situation where school management will actually share facilities and talk to each other. This is what Deputy Gogarty has asked me about in respect of primary schools. It is working to some degree in primary schools because the local community has greater ownership, particularly in the case of the rural schools, as referred to by the Deputy. However, it is not happening to the degree I would like at second level, particularly when we are providing state-of-the-art PE facilities.

Cecilia Keaveney (Donegal North East, Fianna Fail)
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As Chairman of the Joint Committee on Arts, Sport, Tourism, Community, Rural and Gaeltacht Affairs, I see great opportunity for co-operation between the Department of Arts, Sport and Tourism and the Department of Education and Science as regards the availability of facilities. Ultimately, they share the same goal, to get young people and the not so young moving in the same direction because of academic performance as well as physical and mental well-being.

Has the Minister thought about developing cooperation with the Minister for Arts, Sports and Tourism on the idea of opening up the schools, perhaps on a commercial basis? She referred to the installation of fitness suites. There is no reason why after school activity should not yield a commercial return while at the same time helping with the upkeep of the school in terms of lighting and heating costs.

On the issue of forward planning, in a town such as mine, for example, there is a new community college that was in the top five of sporting schools without a PE hall. Perhaps in a few years time there will be an opportunity for the Gaelscoileanna to go forward. If there is a potential for them to develop on greenfield sites located close to existing schools, then perhaps facilities could be shared. Has the Department any plans along these lines? Such initiatives must come from the Department as well as the local communities if duplication is to be curtailed. I am in complete support of Deputy Gogarty on the grounds that PE and music are the first to be hit when education budgets are squeezed and yet they are as central to the cognitive and physical development of the child as any other subject and perhaps more so. However, people do not accept this because the emphasis is on the "three Rs".

Jan O'Sullivan (Limerick East, Labour)
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Is any priority being given to children who otherwise might not have much access to open space? I am thinking in particular of children going to school in an inner city environment. There was a programme on the radio recently about inner city Dublin where there is little access to open space outside school hours. I wonder whether those types of schools will be given priority as regards PE activity.

Mary Hanafin (Dún Laoghaire, Fianna Fail)
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My colleague, the Minister for Arts, Sports and Tourism, Deputy O'Donoghue is very supportive of the provision of sports facilities for communities. Obviously, where that may be done in conjunction with education, it is the way forward. The difficulty is that the Department of Education and Science does not own most of the schools throughout the country. In general a board of management is in place and the schools are owned by a community or an order, so the Department is not in a position to stipulate that the space should be made available. That said, where PE halls are located in community and VEC colleges, in general they are made available to the wider community. However, the Department has no control over situations where it does not own the schools. We have been reviewing planning norms in respect of areas where primary and second-level developments are taking place to see whether it might be possible to build education campuses. This could perhaps accommodate primary and secondary school levels along with the sharing of facilities. We are examining that in our negotiations over particular sites, to see how space may be optimised. That is the way forward. The ideal, of course, would be to have a greenfield site everywhere when wonderful things could be done.

I am conscious of the needs of inner cities and heavily urbanised areas. Given that so much money is going into small and rural schemes, I am anxious that greater attention should be paid to people with particular needs in large urban areas. It is not always possible to meet those needs, however, because of space constraints.