Joe Costello (Dublin Central, Labour)
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I intend no reflection on the Minister of State, Deputy Tim O'Malley, but I would have liked to see the Minister, Deputy McDowell, present. I do not believe the latter has graced the floor of the House on many occasions since entering office to answer matters raised on the Adjournment. This could have been his first opportunity to explain why he has just spent €30 million on a greenfield site in north County Dublin and why he is closing the prison where over €30 million was spent on the women's section not so long ago; €12 million was spent on the juvenile prison, St. Patrick's Institution, only two years ago; and where there is a fine training unit in operation. It would also be an opportunity for the Minister to explain to the local population in north Dublin why he arrived like some thief in the night without any consultation and bought the land, behind their backs. Any decent Minister for Justice, Equality and Law Reform should not be afraid to come forward to justify his actions. However, the Minister is hiding behind his PR gurus, who will issue statements on his behalf. We saw the other day just how much is being spent on branding the Minister in public relations. We need a straightforward explanation and the Minister is not prepared to give it on the floor of the House. He has no respect for the House, as such.

There is no doubt the Minister and all of us are appalled at the conditions in Mountjoy. However, these conditions have existed for decades. The Minister has decided to do something about it because he had no choice. The European Committee for the Prevention of Torture has condemned conditions in Mountjoy. The Government's Inspector of Prisons and Places of Detention, Mr. Justice Dermot Kinlen, has on two occasions called for the closure of Mountjoy in two annual reports, as well as Cork and Limerick jails. The second report has been with the Minister for many months without it being published because of some legal conundrum he was supposed to have resolved long ago and also because a solicitor in Limerick has approximately 800 prisoners and ex-prisoners as clients who are appealing to the European Court of Human Rights over disgraceful conditions as regards slopping out in prisons.

Has the Minister made the right decision in his response? I do not believe he has. In the first instance one has to think about the families of the offenders. The offenders are being punished and their families should not be. There are no public transport facilities anywhere near the new site that has been purchased.

A new women's prison has been constructed which is working excellently and is a model in that respect. It is within the Mountjoy complex and the training unit is there. At the same time the Minister has closed three other prisons which were operating satisfactorily, Shanganagh Castle, the Curragh and Spike Island. He closed them for the most meaningless of reasons, because he was engaged in an industrial relations row about overtime with prison officers. Instead of engaging in proper industrial relations, he went off in a huff and closed the prisons, saying in effect, "You have no prisons now, so you are going to have to come to heel". This is no way for a Minister to behave. The capacity for approximately 300 prisoners is ready and waiting. There is no reason why St. Patrick's Institution for juveniles could not be transferred and the entirety of it refurbished. There is no reason why the adult wing in Mountjoy could not be transferred for extra capacity when St. Patrick's is finished. Again, it could be adequately completed as should have been done many years ago, but the Minister decided differently. He decided on a greenfield site in a public private partnership.

We have no penal policy. We have no indication of alternatives to prison. We have seen the previous Minister increase prison capacity from 2,000 to 3,000. We have seen this Minister increase it to 3,200 and now he proposes to increase it to 4,500. At the same time he claims that crime is going down all the time. There is something wrong, some contradiction and I would be delighted to hear a satisfactory answer to that conundrum.

Tim O'Malley (Limerick East, Progressive Democrats)
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I am deputising for the Minister for Justice, Equality and Law Reform, Deputy McDowell, who unfortunately cannot be here this evening.

Joe Costello (Dublin Central, Labour)
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He could not be here the other evening either.

Tim O'Malley (Limerick East, Progressive Democrats)
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He has been here and to suggest that he is afraid to come into the House is somewhat frivolous. I am glad to have the opportunity to reply to Deputy Costello on behalf of the Minister to outline the reasons for replacing Mountjoy Prison with a prison complex in north County Dublin. The Minister has made it clear that he has for some time been planning a move for the Mountjoy site to a new site in County Dublin. The largely antiquated buildings on the existing site, which is approximately 20 acres in total and surrounded by high density housing, and the difficulty of carrying out extensive renovations with the prisoner population in situ, pose insuperable difficulties for maintaining the existing location. The current Mountjoy site is too small to allow any significant improvement in facilities for prisoners. Another substantive difficulty is that the current facilities are poor by modern penal standards. A new prison complex will deliver significant improvements in conditions for both prisoners and staff.

The Minister has personally inspected the conditions in Mountjoy Prison and come to the clear view that it falls so far short of the requirements of a modern prison and the needs of prisoners and staff, that replacement of the prison complex, rather than refurbishment of the existing facilities, is the only realistic option. The Minister's view is shared and advocated by reports on Mountjoy from both the prison board and the Inspector of Prisons and Places of Detention, and by strong and consistent criticism of the existing facilities by a committee of the Council of Europe and other organisations concerned with the welfare of prisoners. The Minister has directed the Director General of the Prison Service to make an immediate start on planning for the new prison facility.

The total refurbishment of the Mountjoy complex on its present site would last longer, be more disruptive to the prison system and ultimately be far more costly and less satisfactory than the construction of a new complex. The running costs of a refurbished Mountjoy would also be much higher than those of a completely new prison complex.

A number of serious issues arise in any refurbishment of a live prison as old as Mountjoy. There is no in-cell sanitation in Mountjoy and, for operational reasons, it is not a viable option to install same. The result is slopping out. There are also numerous structural difficulties such as cell doors and doorways which are significantly smaller than other prisons and cell windows which are small and do not provide sufficient light or ventilation. Walkways are narrow and in poor condition and there are insufficient bridges between them. The heating system is also in a fragile condition, the wings are dark with insufficient natural light in cells and common areas. Central services, that is, water, sewerage, and power, were designed for a Victorian building and must be replaced to modern standards to meet legal requirements. We need a civilised modern prison with adequate facilities — medical, recreational, training and rehabilitative.

The benefits which will result from moving to a green field site greatly outweigh the case for refurbishment of Mountjoy Prison. It is currently estimated that the cost of renovating a single wing at Mountjoy Prison would be between €25 million and €30 million. The provision of a new modern building with the full range of emerging prison technologies, including modern facilities, will greatly improve conditions both for staff and offenders and will result in significant savings in operational costs. Outdoor recreation and yard space will be enhanced, as will visiting facilities including family friendly facilities such as a crèche and playground. Special transport links will be provided for visitors to the new prison.

St. Patrick's Institution and the Dóchas Centre are no longer adequate. St. Patrick's is unsuitable for young offenders and the recently constructed Dóchas Centre is already completely inadequate in terms of size. The training unit at Mountjoy is also obsolescent even though it is relatively new.

The cost of the new site has been questioned by some Deputies. The position is that early last year a public advertisement was placed in the national newspapers inviting landowners to put forward suitable sites for sale in the greater Dublin area. The average asking price of land owners who responded to that advertisement was above €200,000 per acre, with some owners seeking as much as €500,000 per acre. More than 30 sites were examined by an expert committee comprising representatives of the Office of Public Works, the Irish Prison Service and the Department of Justice, Equality and Law Reform. However, only five sites were deemed to be suitable for consideration as a site for the new facility. The purchase price of the site finally selected, which worked out at €199,333 per acre, was lower than the asking price for the other suitable sites.

Joe Costello (Dublin Central, Labour)
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That is over 20 times the normal price.

Tim O'Malley (Limerick East, Progressive Democrats)
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It is worth recording that two thirds of the cost price is being met from the sale of lands at Shanganagh Castle. There is no truth in the suggestion that the sale of Shanganagh is prevented by a restrictive covenant. The OPW, which was involved in this process and deals daily in land and property management on behalf of the State, has advised that the price paid could not be regarded as exorbitant. Indeed, it probably represents a long-term investment for the taxpayer.

To sum up, the reasons for replacing Mountjoy Prison have been made clear on numerous occasions. The condition of the main buildings are such that they are not suitable for refurbishment. The only viable option is to replace Mountjoy Prison completely. This is not possible while approximately 900 prisoners are housed on the entire complex, representing just under 30% of the entire Irish prison system. There is simply nowhere to keep them while reconstruction work is under way. In the Minister's view, the arguments in favour of the replacement of the Mountjoy complex with a new prison on a greenfield site are persuasive.