Brian O'Shea (Waterford, Labour)
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Question 116: To ask the Minister for Transport the position with regard to discussions between his Department and trade unions representing workers in CIE on the future of the company; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [26971/04]

Brian O'Shea (Waterford, Labour)
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Question 129: To ask the Minister for Transport if it is his intention to proceed with plans, announced to franchise out up to 25% of the Dublin Bus routes; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [26972/04]

Martin Cullen (Waterford, Fianna Fail)
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I propose to take Questions Nos. 116 and 129 together.

Talks on the reform of public transport between officials in my Department and the CIE unions, under an independent chair appointed by the Labour Relations Commission, were adjourned in mid-September. I am reviewing the developments which have taken place during these talks and the technical work which has been undertaken by my Department on the reform programme. I am also consulting key stakeholders. When I have completed that review and my consultations, I will consider how to proceed to give effect to the Government commitment to reform public transport.

Róisín Shortall (Dublin North West, Labour)
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Those talks were suspended, largely because of the provocative approach taken by the Minister's predecessor. I hope the Minister will not follow in his footsteps and that he will engage with the various players and the Opposition on transport issues.

The talks were held under the chairmanship of Kevin Foley. Does the Minister intend to reconvene talks with the unions? What approach will he take on the future of CIE? I am heartened by his earlier response to Deputy Olivia Mitchell, in which he indicated that he will not have the same hang up about ownership as his predecessor. Will he confirm that his priority in respect of public transport services will be to increase capacity?

Martin Cullen (Waterford, Fianna Fail)
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Because I brought myself into the process I would not say that the talks are not now happening. I have had rounds of discussions directly with the unions on this issue. I have asked my officials to resume the talks with their representatives to move the process forward. I was equally heartened by what people coming from different perspectives had to say because there was a common thread. One always tries to find common ground to move a process forward. The common ground on this issue is market opening and the realisation that everybody wants to improve the service. Given the growth in population and the changing shape of suburban Dublin, increased and improved public transport services are needed. Equally, more innovative bus routes are needed.

My approach is not based on ideology. I am examining different available options and I have not ruled anything out. I have examined all the issues that form the picture. Experts in the public and private sectors have expressed different views on this issue. I am guided by only one premise, which is to make a decision, reach agreement and implement it.

Róisín Shortall (Dublin North West, Labour)
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Presumably the motivation will be to increase capacity rather than concentrate on ownership.

Martin Cullen (Waterford, Fianna Fail)
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Yes.

Róisín Shortall (Dublin North West, Labour)
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I refer to the legislation that will underpin these changes. Does the Minister accept a significant number of operators are competing in the national bus market? Within the Dublin area, a recent survey of traffic movement across the canal cordon highlighted that almost 30% of buses were privately owned. The difficulty from a legislative point of view is there is no facility for charging operators for licences. Licences to operate busy bus routes are valuable commodities but a charge is not provided for in legislation. Does the Minister intend to address that?

CIE workers are greatly concerned about the proposed break up of the company and its implications for their pensions, which are currently guaranteed by the company. The Department of Transport recently commissioned a report. Will the Minister place that report in the Oireachtas Library? When does he expect to bring the discussions to a conclusion?

Martin Cullen (Waterford, Fianna Fail)
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Bringing the discussions to a conclusion depends on everybody and not only me. However, there is a will on all sides to achieve a good outcome from this process. I accept Bus Éireann's response to competition in the national bus market has been good for everybody, including the company itself and the travelling public.

Róisín Shortall (Dublin North West, Labour)
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That was a response to investment.

Martin Cullen (Waterford, Fianna Fail)
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Yes, but it was also in response to public demand. It proves that if the service is provided, the public tends to avail of it. That needs to be transferred to Dublin to make public transport the mode of choice for people at least some days, if not every day. That would make an enormous difference as people would not constantly use their cars without it crossing their minds to use public transport. All the issues raised by Deputies Shortall and Olivia Mitchell are in the mix. I do not have an absolute view on them. However, I have ideas that I think can work. I want to work them through with the stakeholders on all sides to see if agreement can be reached to implement them. The market needs to be opened up more because that is what the public wants. That will be good for everybody. I also want to invest further in Dublin Bus. Continued investment in the company is on the table in the context of opening up the market.

The report on pensions has been received and, once I have considered it, I intend to publish it at an appropriate time.

Eamon Ryan (Dublin South, Green Party)
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The Minister is probably still being briefed on issues, given his brief time in the Department. Has he considered whether the regulation of the type of services should be separated from the provision of services? In other words, regardless of whether CIE services are open to competition, there may be a case for establishing a separate body to set the level of services the transport companies should provide. A regulator could be an authority to provide that. Will the Minister pursue legislation to appoint a regulator?

Martin Cullen (Waterford, Fianna Fail)
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That is a separate question. I am aware of the issue but I have not considered it in great detail in the few weeks I have been in the Department. I will examine the issue in more depth. It is on my agenda.

Eamon Ryan (Dublin South, Green Party)
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Does the Minister agree it is the same issue because consideration should be given to the public transport services that should be provided, as Deputy Shortall said? A regulator is an independent body who could analyse and provide details. The Minister could then decide whether public or private operators should provide the service. Surely that comes first, before the Minister examines ownership structures.

Martin Cullen (Waterford, Fianna Fail)
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That comes into the equation. I have not gone into the issue in detail because I have spent my time, rightly, meeting the different stakeholders as quickly as possible. I want to take on board all the views and I want to understand what people are saying and where is the common ground. I will move forward on that assessment. Issues such as a regulator must form the basis of the way forward.