Dáil debates
Tuesday, 12 October 2004
Order of Business.
4:00 pm
Mary Harney (Dublin Mid West, Progressive Democrats)
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The Order of Business shall be as follows: No. 17, motion re leave to introduce Supplementary and Additional Estimates, Votes 16 and 39; No. 18, motion re referral of Supplementary and Additional Estimates, Votes 16 and 39, to select committee; No. 19, motion re membership of committees; No. 1, Adoptive Leave Bill 2004 [Seanad] — Second Stage; and No. 3, Civil Service Regulation (Amendment) Bill 2004 — Order for Second Stage and Second Stage.
It is proposed, notwithstanding anything in Standing Orders, that No. 17, subject to the agreement of No. 17, No 18, referral to select committee, and No. 19 shall be decided without debate and in the case of Nos. 17 and 18 any divisions demanded thereon shall be taken forthwith. Private Members' business shall be No. 39, motion re health services.
Rory O'Hanlon (Cavan-Monaghan, Ceann Comhairle)
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There is one proposal to put to the House. Is the proposal for dealing with Nos. 17, 18 and 19 without debate agreed to?
Enda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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This matter has been addressed in the Bill in the House and Deputy Bruton expressed his concerns about this procedure.
Is it expected that this will return to the House for further discussion after Committee Stage later this week?
Trevor Sargent (Dublin North, Green Party)
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I, too, would like this matter to return to the House as it refers, although not explicitly, to the Civil Service Commission and the dispersal of civil servants throughout the country. That there are only two people from the Civil Service Commission offering to be moved to Youghal to date indicates the need to examine closely whether Government policy has any basis, whether it will be possible to follow it through and whether we need to consider a plan B. There is a need for a debate.
Rory O'Hanlon (Cavan-Monaghan, Ceann Comhairle)
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To which item is the Deputy referring?
Trevor Sargent (Dublin North, Green Party)
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The items pertaining to the Estimates.
Rory O'Hanlon (Cavan-Monaghan, Ceann Comhairle)
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No. 17 concerns leave to introduce Supplementary and Additional Estimates.
Trevor Sargent (Dublin North, Green Party)
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It refers to the Civil Service Commission.
Rory O'Hanlon (Cavan-Monaghan, Ceann Comhairle)
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No. 18 concerns the referral of Supplementary and Additional Estimates to a select committee and No. 19 concerns membership of committees.
Trevor Sargent (Dublin North, Green Party)
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It refers to the Civil Service Commission.
Rory O'Hanlon (Cavan-Monaghan, Ceann Comhairle)
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It does not. I call the Tánaiste on Deputy Kenny's question.
Mary Harney (Dublin Mid West, Progressive Democrats)
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The matter will return to the House on Thursday.
Rory O'Hanlon (Cavan-Monaghan, Ceann Comhairle)
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Is the proposal agreed? Agreed.
Enda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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I was going to ask the Tánaiste if she had seen any sign of the Minister for Justice, Equality and Law Reform today. Perhaps she will elaborate on the theme of the conference on histocompatibility in Dublin Castle, which is to be opened by her Minister of State tomorrow.
Rory O'Hanlon (Cavan-Monaghan, Ceann Comhairle)
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That does not arise.
Enda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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Will the Tánaiste state if there has been any movement in respect of the commitment by Government to employ 2,000 extra gardaí?
Rory O'Hanlon (Cavan-Monaghan, Ceann Comhairle)
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That does not arise on the Order of Business.
Enda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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Is it likely to appear in legislation or a Supplementary Estimate before the budget?
Bernard Durkan (Kildare North, Fine Gael)
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It was in the programme for Government.
Rory O'Hanlon (Cavan-Monaghan, Ceann Comhairle)
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I call Deputy Rabbitte.
Bernard Durkan (Kildare North, Fine Gael)
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It was in the programme for Government.
Pat Rabbitte (Dublin South West, Labour)
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What is the position on the building control Bill? The Tánaiste and longer-serving Members of the House will recall when a four foot wall had to built around the home of a Minister for Justice. When asked to explain it, he said it was to stop the Minister, Deputy Brennan, looking in over it. Will there be provision for such a wall in any new planning application in Roscommon?
Rory O'Hanlon (Cavan-Monaghan, Ceann Comhairle)
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That does not arise.
Seán Ryan (Dublin North, Labour)
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As far as the county manager is concerned, it does arise.
Trevor Sargent (Dublin North, Green Party)
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The Tánaiste might like to reply.
Pat Rabbitte (Dublin South West, Labour)
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It has arisen. That is the problem.
Rory O'Hanlon (Cavan-Monaghan, Ceann Comhairle)
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The Tánaiste should reply on the building control Bill.
Mary Harney (Dublin Mid West, Progressive Democrats)
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The building control Bill is substantially in hand and will be ready in the middle of next year.
Emmet StaggMary Harney (Dublin Mid West, Progressive Democrats)
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I do not believe we require legislation to deal with the problem in County Roscommon.
Paul Kehoe (Wexford, Fine Gael)
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Will we get an invitation for——
Rory O'Hanlon (Cavan-Monaghan, Ceann Comhairle)
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I call on Deputy Sargent.
Mary Harney (Dublin Mid West, Progressive Democrats)
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There will be an open invitation to the House, I am assured.
Joe HigginsMary Harney (Dublin Mid West, Progressive Democrats)
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Even Deputy Joe Higgins might get an invitation.
Trevor Sargent (Dublin North, Green Party)
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I hope the Minister for Justice, Equality and Law Reform might be consulted on the building control Bill as he might have some informed opinions on it.
The health Bill, which is due this session, is certainly needed if a statutory framework is to be provided for complaints procedures in the health service. What is the progress on this legislation? Likewise, given that the ESRI is reminding us that older people in Ireland are twice as likely to be poor than those in the rest of the EU——
Rory O'Hanlon (Cavan-Monaghan, Ceann Comhairle)
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Is the Deputy's question appropriate to the Order of Business?
Trevor Sargent (Dublin North, Green Party)
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It is very appropriate. The health and social care professionals Bill was supposed to be dealt with in the January legislative programme and, when that did not happen, in the Easter legislative programme. Is there a particular delay, the surmounting of which would allow it to be expedited? Why should it be further delayed?
Mary Harney (Dublin Mid West, Progressive Democrats)
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That Bill was cleared by the Cabinet this morning. I hope the other Bill to reform the health service will be before the House in November. The health complaints Bill will be incorporated into that Bill.
Bernard Allen (Cork North Central, Fine Gael)
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Given that the Government referred so often to the circumstances in the US during the debate on electronic voting and that Arnold "Rambo" Schwarzenegger has brought in a Bill in California prohibiting the use of electronic voting systems without verifiable audit trails——
Rory O'Hanlon (Cavan-Monaghan, Ceann Comhairle)
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Is the question appropriate to the Order of Business?
Bernard Allen (Cork North Central, Fine Gael)
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Yes. Does the Government intend to introduce legislation providing for a verifiable audit trail? Will it speak to the Commission on Electronic Voting——
Rory O'Hanlon (Cavan-Monaghan, Ceann Comhairle)
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That does not arise on the Order of Business. I suggest that the Deputy submit a question to the Minister for the Environment, Heritage and Local Government.
Bernard Allen (Cork North Central, Fine Gael)
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——and ask it to examine the question of a verifiable paper audit trail?
Brendan Howlin (Wexford, Labour)
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During Leaders' Questions, the Tánaiste referred to the legislation required subsequent to the enactment of the last amendment to the Constitution. When will this legislation be introduced? Is there any provision for a humanitarian amnesty for those who are in the country for at least five years and who were caught under the enactment of the constitutional provision?
Rory O'Hanlon (Cavan-Monaghan, Ceann Comhairle)
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The content of the Bill does not arise. The Tánaiste should reply on the legislation.
Mary Harney (Dublin Mid West, Progressive Democrats)
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It will be introduced this session. It has been cleared by the Government and I believe it has been published. It does not make provision for any amnesties.
Brendan Howlin (Wexford, Labour)
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If one is in the country for five years——
Rory O'Hanlon (Cavan-Monaghan, Ceann Comhairle)
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We cannot discuss the content of what might be in the Bill.
Mary Harney (Dublin Mid West, Progressive Democrats)
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Perhaps the Deputy should debate that when the Bill is considered in the House.
Caoimhghín Ó Caoláin (Cavan-Monaghan, Sinn Fein)
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Will the Tánaiste state when the second report of Mr. Justice Henry Barron into the British bombings in the city of Dublin in 1972 and 1973 and other incidents will be published and brought before the Houses of the Oireachtas?
Rory O'Hanlon (Cavan-Monaghan, Ceann Comhairle)
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I suggest that the Deputy submit a question on that issue.
Caoimhghín Ó Caoláin (Cavan-Monaghan, Sinn Fein)
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Will the Tánaiste state whether it is intended to proceed with the second report as with the first?
Rory O'Hanlon (Cavan-Monaghan, Ceann Comhairle)
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That does not arise on the Order of Business. I suggest that the Deputy submit a question to the appropriate Minister.
Caoimhghín Ó Caoláin (Cavan-Monaghan, Sinn Fein)
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It was appropriate in the past when a report commissioned by the Houses of the Oireachtas was coming back. I am asking about the procedures the Government will adopt regarding its introduction in the House.
Rory O'Hanlon (Cavan-Monaghan, Ceann Comhairle)
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Procedure does not arise at this stage.
Caoimhghín Ó Caoláin (Cavan-Monaghan, Sinn Fein)
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The Taoiseach has addressed these questions before.
Rory O'Hanlon (Cavan-Monaghan, Ceann Comhairle)
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I call on Deputy Richard Bruton.
Caoimhghín Ó Caoláin (Cavan-Monaghan, Sinn Fein)
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With respect, the precedent is long established. In my own short years of presence in the House, this matter has been answered by the Taoiseach during the Order of Business and with the approval of the Ceann Comhairle.
Rory O'Hanlon (Cavan-Monaghan, Ceann Comhairle)
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I suggest that the Deputy submit a question to the appropriate Minister.
Caoimhghín Ó Caoláin (Cavan-Monaghan, Sinn Fein)
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Will the Tánaiste indicate if it is intended that the sub-committee of the Committee on Justice, Equality, Defence and Women's Rights will address this?
Mary Harney (Dublin Mid West, Progressive Democrats)
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Unfortunately, I do not have the answer. Perhaps I could come back to the Deputy tomorrow, if it is in order.
Caoimhghín Ó Caoláin (Cavan-Monaghan, Sinn Fein)
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That is all right. I thank the Tánaiste.
Richard Bruton (Dublin North Central, Fine Gael)
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The Ceann Comhairle will recall that the Comptroller and Auditor General reported to the House on the roads programme and indicated that a €7 billion Estimate pertaining thereto escalated by €8.8 billion, an increase of over 100%. The Taoiseach stated breathlessly that the strategic national infrastructure Bill would tackle many such overruns in cost but it seems that it has fallen by the wayside. It is not to be published until 2005. By the time it passes through this House, the roads programme will be complete.
Rory O'Hanlon (Cavan-Monaghan, Ceann Comhairle)
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The Tánaiste should reply on promised legislation.
Richard Bruton (Dublin North Central, Fine Gael)
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What contribution will the Bill make to dealing with our national infrastructure?
Mary Harney (Dublin Mid West, Progressive Democrats)
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The new Minister for the Environment, Heritage and Local Government is reflecting on that legislation and will be making a proposal to Cabinet shortly.
Joe Costello (Dublin Central, Labour)
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Will the Tánaiste indicate when the Garda Síochána Bill, which provides for an ombudsman, will be introduced in the House?
Mary Harney (Dublin Mid West, Progressive Democrats)
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I understand that it is before the Seanad at present and will come to this House when it has been passed by the other House.
Tommy Broughan (Dublin North East, Labour)
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Does the Tánaiste expect the Minister for Enterprise, Trade and Employment to bring any initiative to Cabinet or introduce legislation regarding jobs initiative and community employment workers, given that many schemes are being terminated?
Rory O'Hanlon (Cavan-Monaghan, Ceann Comhairle)
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Has the Deputy a question appropriate to the Order of Business?
Tommy Broughan (Dublin North East, Labour)
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It is very appropriate to that Minister——
Rory O'Hanlon (Cavan-Monaghan, Ceann Comhairle)
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I suggest that the Deputy submit a question to the Minister.
Tommy Broughan (Dublin North East, Labour)
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The Tánaiste was Minister for Enterprise, Trade and Employment for the past seven years.
Ciarán Cuffe (Dún Laoghaire, Green Party)
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Will we have a chance to discuss the Taoiseach's absolute commitment to achieving our targets for UN aid by 2007 when the Council of Europe Development Bank Bill 2004 comes before the House?
Rory O'Hanlon (Cavan-Monaghan, Ceann Comhairle)
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The Tánaiste should reply on promised legislation.
Mary Harney (Dublin Mid West, Progressive Democrats)
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It is ordered for Second Stage.
Bernard Durkan (Kildare North, Fine Gael)
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An Agreed Programme for Government referred to a crimes Bill. What is the Government's intention in this regard?
Mary Harney (Dublin Mid West, Progressive Democrats)
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It is not possible to answer at this stage. The Minister is obviously considering the report of the expert group which was submitted to him in late June.
Joe Sherlock (Cork East, Labour)
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As the Tánaiste is giving positive answers today, I ask her to introduce the ground rents Bill without reference to the legal implications involved in it.
Mary Harney (Dublin Mid West, Progressive Democrats)
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I believe one would need a Messiah for this one because for the past seven years I have been asking questions about that. I am sure I have not got to the page yet that will not say the same thing —"Not possible to say at this stage".
Pat Rabbitte (Dublin South West, Labour)
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Bring Deputy Michael Smith back to the Cabinet.
Mary Harney (Dublin Mid West, Progressive Democrats)
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Perhaps we should decide either that it can or cannot be done, and deal with it accordingly.
Dan Boyle (Cork South Central, Green Party)
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The new Minister for Social and Family Affairs was informed by Mr. John Monaghan of the Society of St. Vincent de Paul about the devastating effect of the removal of the MABS allowance. Given that he was so informed, will the Tánaiste tell the House when the money advice and budgeting service Bill will come before the House?
Mary Harney (Dublin Mid West, Progressive Democrats)
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It was published two years ago. It has been ordered for Second Stage but amendments are awaited from the Department of Social and Family Affairs. I will speak to the new Minister and will revert to the Deputy about the matter.