Phil Hogan (Carlow-Kilkenny, Fine Gael)
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Question 4: To ask the Tánaiste and Minister for Enterprise, Trade and Employment the details of the work programme of the consumer consultative panel; the efforts the panel has taken to be inclusive in its consideration of issues of relevance to consumers; and if she will make a statement on the matter. [18150/04]

Mary Harney (Dublin Mid West, Progressive Democrats)
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The consumer strategy group launched its new website, www.irishconsumer.ie, earlier this month. The group has also announced its public consultation on consumer issues and invited individual consumers, representative organisations, businesses and any other interested parties to contact it with views and submissions by 9 July next. The group has produced a consultation paper, Components of Consumer Policy, which should assist those wishing to make a submission. The group is focusing on the key principles guiding the consumer agenda, namely, access, safeguards, advice and support, redress, consumer power, business interest and consumers.

The group proposes to obtain detailed research on consumer attitudes via focus groups and face-to-face interviews to ensure that all issues of concern are identified. The results of this research together with the responses to the public consultation will form the foundations for the group's work. The group is due to produce a final report by the end of 2004 and it may also produce such interim reports to me as it considers appropriate. I encourage all interested parties to make a submission to the group and thereby lay the foundation for a strong national consumer policy, which will further empower consumers and enhance Irish business competitiveness.

Phil Hogan (Carlow-Kilkenny, Fine Gael)
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Does the Tánaiste agree it is disappointing that, after seven years in office, she has discovered she needs a new consumer policy because she has none? Why has it taken her seven years to discover that people were being overcharged and ripped off, that prices were going out of control and that household incomes were being challenged on that basis?

Were it not for the pressure being applied by consumer groups and Fine Gael, through the establishment of its own website, to highlight these issues, the Tánaiste would have continued ad infinitum without discovering she needs new consultation with various groups to devise a consumer policy. It is an important area which has been neglected by the Tánaiste over that period. After seven years in office, the Tánaiste should feed in her own proposals rather than have another advisory group make recommendations to her about issues she should know about anyway.

Mary Harney (Dublin Mid West, Progressive Democrats)
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Let us put matters in perspective. At the Estimates meeting this morning, I stated that we pay ourselves the second highest wage rates in the European Union. If we think we can continue to do so and have the cheapest prices, we need to get real. This is a question of supply and demand and the economic development which has taken place in Ireland has fuelled increased prices for housing and other commodities. One sure way of driving prices down would be if Intel and Hewlett Packard closed in Leixlip — it would take €100,000 or €150,000 off the price of every house in Lucan, Leixlip, Celbridge, Maynooth and so on. Recession is one way of driving prices down.

Nonetheless, according to recent survey, Spain and Ireland have the cheapest petrol prices. Therefore, it is not the case that Ireland is the most expensive in every category. I examined Fine Gael's suggestions in its local elections manifesto. It wants local authorities to employ consumer gurus to go into companies and check margins. I would love to see the guru in Kildare going into Intel and asking to have a look at the company's margin. It is a Kremlin-like activity.

Phil Hogan (Carlow-Kilkenny, Fine Gael)
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I will send the Tánaiste a copy of the document.

Mary Harney (Dublin Mid West, Progressive Democrats)
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Perhaps the Deputy could send it to the consumer advisory group to see what it thinks of it.

Phil Hogan (Carlow-Kilkenny, Fine Gael)
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I will send it to the Tánaiste instead.

Mary Harney (Dublin Mid West, Progressive Democrats)
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No. I have read it and I think it is daft. The Deputy also knows it is daft.

Phil Hogan (Carlow-Kilkenny, Fine Gael)
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The Tánaiste has no policy.

Mary Harney (Dublin Mid West, Progressive Democrats)
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It is competition that drives down prices and nothing else. Where there are monopoly suppliers, whether they are private or public, prices are always higher. Where we have introduced real competition, we have seen the benefit for consumers and I hope we can continue to introduce even more. However, one cannot control prices through legislation, which we all know. Moreover, in certain categories such as footwear, prices have fallen substantially in the past decade.

Phil Hogan (Carlow-Kilkenny, Fine Gael)
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It is hypocritical of the Tánaiste to state that competition is the basis upon which we can reduce prices given that she has approved many mergers and monopolies in the past seven years.

Mary Harney (Dublin Mid West, Progressive Democrats)
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I have approved no monopolies.

Phil Hogan (Carlow-Kilkenny, Fine Gael)
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The Tánaiste has ensured that there is no competition between insurance companies, in particular, through the number of mergers she has approved since she became Minister for Enterprise, Trade and Employment.

Mary Harney (Dublin Mid West, Progressive Democrats)
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Will the Deputy name the mergers I approved?

Phil Hogan (Carlow-Kilkenny, Fine Gael)
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Norwich Union and Hibernian merged during the Tánaiste's term of office.

Mary Harney (Dublin Mid West, Progressive Democrats)
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Where was that decision made?

Phil Hogan (Carlow-Kilkenny, Fine Gael)
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The Tánaiste approved it.

Mary Harney (Dublin Mid West, Progressive Democrats)
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Was that decision made in Dublin or Brussels? The Deputy does not know the facts.

Phil Hogan (Carlow-Kilkenny, Fine Gael)
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The Department of Enterprise, Trade and Employment approved the mergers.

Brendan Howlin (Wexford, Labour)
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The Tánaiste is supposed to answer the questions.

Mary Harney (Dublin Mid West, Progressive Democrats)
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I will answer them if the questioner has the correct information.

Phil Hogan (Carlow-Kilkenny, Fine Gael)
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Does the Tánaiste agree that the 27 stealth taxes introduced since the previous general election have contributed to higher costs? There is no competition in the electricity or gas business or in many of our public utilities, yet the Tánaiste is the leader of a political party which has supposedly made its name on its stated desire to liberalise the economy and create more competition.

Ireland is the most expensive country in Europe, Dublin is the fourth most expensive city in Europe and our level of competitiveness is falling all the time which, unfortunately, is the political outcome of the Tánaiste's seven-year term of office. Now I know why she is anxious to move on. Some 27 stealth taxes have been introduced along with a 1% increase in VAT on electricity and to be added to excise duty. A total of 75% of all the costs and charges associated with inflation are Government-related and the Tánaiste has been a member of that Government for the past seven years.

Mary Harney (Dublin Mid West, Progressive Democrats)
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As I stated this morning, the take-home pay of the average industrial worker has increased by €10,800. Inflation, including utility charges——

Phil Hogan (Carlow-Kilkenny, Fine Gael)
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Their disposable income has not increased.

Mary Harney (Dublin Mid West, Progressive Democrats)
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Total income is €29,000. Disposable income is up by nearly €11,000. Inflation and the utility increases——

Phil Hogan (Carlow-Kilkenny, Fine Gael)
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What are the costs?

Mary Harney (Dublin Mid West, Progressive Democrats)
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I will tell the Deputy if he will let me answer. Inflation and utility bills take up some €2,500 of that figure, but people are better off to the tune of €7,500, even when one discounts all the items to which the Deputy has referred.

Phil Hogan (Carlow-Kilkenny, Fine Gael)
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The Tánaiste has learnt nothing.

Mary Harney (Dublin Mid West, Progressive Democrats)
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This is the second most competitive and most successful economy in Europe. We gained twice as much foreign direct investment last year as any other European country.

Prices rise when there is economic growth.

Phil Hogan (Carlow-Kilkenny, Fine Gael)
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The people do not believe the Tánaiste.

Bernard Durkan (Kildare North, Fine Gael)
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We have rising prices.

Mary Harney (Dublin Mid West, Progressive Democrats)
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Yes. One way of making sure prices fall would be to have a recession.

Phil Hogan (Carlow-Kilkenny, Fine Gael)
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I do not know why the party of which the Tánaiste is a member did not double its number of seats. The Tánaiste is never wrong.

Mary Harney (Dublin Mid West, Progressive Democrats)
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The Deputy does not understand basic economics.

Phil Hogan (Carlow-Kilkenny, Fine Gael)
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The Tánaiste understands better. She knows everything. She knows best. That is why the party of which she is a member lost half its seats.

Mary Harney (Dublin Mid West, Progressive Democrats)
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We did not lose half our seats.