Denis Naughten (Longford-Roscommon, Fine Gael)
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Question 42: To ask the Minister for Justice, Equality and Law Reform when he intends to roll out fixed speed cameras; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [15816/04]

Michael McDowell (Dublin South East, Progressive Democrats)
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I am strongly of the view that some non-core functions carried out by gardaí could just as effectively be carried out by persons without full Garda powers. This is especially true of some aspects of the enforcement of road safety. The current provisions of the Road Traffic Acts specify that certain elements of the administration of its provisions should be carried out by members of the Garda, including the utilisation of cameras to detect speeding. Towards the end of 2003 and following consultations with the Garda Commissioner and my colleague the Minister for Transport, Deputy Brennan, I established a working group to examine what scope existed to outsource the installation and operation of speed cameras. The group is chaired by my Department and comprises its representatives as well as those of the Garda Síochána, the Department of Transport and the National Roads Authority.

As part of its work, the group is considering what elements of speed detection might be outsourced, how camera sites should be chosen, what legislative changes are necessary to enable this to happen and how the financing of such a venture might be structured. The criteria by which camera sites will be chosen is of crucial importance. I understand that the Garda will continue to play a central, supervisory role in this regard. The working group will make recommendations on how to ensure public support for the new regime to prevent it being seen by people as a revenue generation racket. The group will draw on the considerable expertise of the National Safety Council to achieve this.

It seems likely that the emphasis will be on mobile camera devices rather than on fixed sites consisting of grey boxes on poles. This will facilitate a speedier and more flexible response to monitoring locations of particular concern. Outsourcing the installation and operation of speed cameras will require legislative change. Members of the working group have been involved in work on the road traffic Bill being prepared by the Minister for Transport. The Bill will provide for non-Garda involvement in the operation of speed cameras. Its preparation is well advanced and the Minister for Transport hopes to bring it before the Houses of the Oireachtas during this session.

I am informed that the working group is continuing its detailed examination of the issues involved. At issue is a fundamentally new approach. Deputy Jim O'Keeffe will appreciate that it is vital to take the time to get the system right, especially in view of our earlier discussion of where things may have gone wrong.

Jim O'Keeffe (Cork South West, Fine Gael)
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What is the position on fixed speed cameras? I presume the same law will apply to them as applies to hand-held radar detection guns and that operators will be obliged to carry a document which can be shown to an accused person. Who would hand the document over and what procedures will be put in place from that point of view? Have any fixed speed cameras been purchased and employed or are we starting afresh with procedures to be put in place following the report of the working group? What costings are involved? Will the Minister provide the House with more practical details of the proposals? He might also indicate the expected timeframe.

Michael McDowell (Dublin South East, Progressive Democrats)
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I do not wish to anticipate the results of the working group's studies. By definition, fixed grey-box speed cameras produce a record of the kind in question. As there is no garda sitting inside the box, whatever it produces must constitute a record of a car and its speed. Nobody else is there to witness an offence. While the record is not furnished on the spot to the motorist, it is furnished at a later point to the registered owner of the car with the usual request where he or she was not the driver at the time of the offence to identify the driver or to accept responsibility and pay the penalty.

Deputy Jim O'Keeffe asked about costs. Mobile cameras are much more flexible in their operation. A number of commercial concerns have shown me their wares in an effort to interest me in the matter and I can inform the Deputy that a wide variety of technologies are available. There are a significant number of commercial operators with systems to offer.

Jim O'Keeffe (Cork South West, Fine Gael)
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At what cost?

Michael McDowell (Dublin South East, Progressive Democrats)
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I am not in a position to state what the costs would be. It would be unwise to do so as there will eventually be some form of tendering process.

Jim O'Keeffe (Cork South West, Fine Gael)
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I am interested in being given a ballpark idea of the kind of money which will be involved. I understand the Garda already has 480 of the hand-held devices known as hairdryers which apparently do not comply with legislation subsequently passed to apply to them. That is a separate issue.

If the Minister's colleague, the Minister for Transport, proposes to provide fixed speed cameras, I would like to be given some idea of the sums being talked about, the number of devices in question and the proposed date of their introduction. There should be a proper arrangement between the Ministers on this matter. The issue of speed cameras is up in the air while there is dreadful carnage on the roads. The public wants to know when an effective system which complies fully with the law will be put in place.

Michael McDowell (Dublin South East, Progressive Democrats)
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This is the responsibility of my colleague, the Minister, Deputy Brennan. I am not passing the buck or trying to abdicate responsibility but, as far as the legislation is involved, responsibility for developing policy and choosing different systems rests primarily with the Department of Transport. It used to lie with the Department for the Environment, Heritage and Local Government. I agree with the Deputy that there should be full co-operation between the Garda and the relevant office of the Department of Transport so that there are no cracks in the floor boards through which things would fall, and that legislation is fully compatible with practice and what is practicable in any case so that it is not driven from a theoretical point of view which excludes practical experience.

The Garda Commissioner has pledged complete involvement and support for the reforming legislation of the Minister, Deputy Brennan, in this area. The type of cameras to be used depends on the system chosen by the Department of Transport. It will not be chosen exclusively by my Department or by the Garda. I am not in a position to elaborate further. We must put in place a durable and flexible statutory basis for the operation of these systems and for their outsourcing so that the system does not fall foul of rigidities in the legislation which are unnecessary in the first place.