Dáil debates
Tuesday, 25 May 2004
Private Members' Business.
Housing Provisions: Motion.
6:00 pm
Liz McManus (Wicklow, Labour)
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I move:
That Dáil Éireann, considering that the Fianna Fáil-Progressive Democrats Government has, during a period of unprecedented economic prosperity, failed to stabilise house prices and failed to provide for the housing needs of the people, calls for:
—the implementation of the report of the All-Party Committee on the Constitution in relation to building land, with a view to making housing affordable;
—the delivery of the 10,000 additional affordable houses which were to have been provided under Sustaining Progress and which have not even been started;
—a doubling of the production of social housing;
— the reversal of the cuts in rent allowance and the introduction of a housing benefit;
—the introduction of legislation to protect the consumer rights of home buyers; and
—the implementation of the integrated strategy on homelessness.
I wish to share time with Deputies Lynch and O'Sullivan.
Rory O'Hanlon (Cavan-Monaghan, Ceann Comhairle)
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Is that agreed? Agreed.
7:00 pm
Liz McManus (Wicklow, Labour)
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Our spokesperson on the environment, Deputy Gilmore, has suffered a family bereavement and as a consequence is not in the House.
In the past ten years, the property market in this country has been elevated almost to the level of a national obsession. Newspapers print bulky supplements packed with property advertising. Economists who pronounce on future trends in house prices are guaranteed extensive coverage. Where once the weather was the staple diet of small talk with strangers, we now rely on property prices to fill gaps in conversation.
The motion is about the political choices that Governments make or fail to make and how those choices affect people's lives. Throughout the Government's seven years in office, it has been confronted by a property market profoundly affected by an unprecedented economic boom. It has posed problems and dilemmas but above all choices. This Government has consistently chosen to maintain the property market as a source of enormous profits for a few speculators at the expense of those who need housing. It has consistently chosen to treat housing like any other commodity rather than as an essential social good or, perish the thought, a right of citizenship. In response to political pressure, it has from time to time meddled with the housing market, however it has never seen the property market as one to be properly regulated and controlled in the public interest. Instead, the commodification and marketisation of housing have increased.
That is, of course, completely in keeping with the new conservative Fianna Fáil, whose right-wing ideology would be instantly recognisable and quite at home in the British Conservative Party or among American Republicans and which serves the interests of Fianna Fáil's wealthy backers, who never have any difficulty finding a home and shelter in the Fianna Fáil tent at the Galway races. As this motion makes clear, there is a housing crisis in Ireland which pervades all housing types. When the Labour Party was last in Government, families and young couples on modest incomes could afford to buy their own homes. People on council housing lists were housed within a reasonable time and there were certainly far fewer homeless people.
Under Fianna Fáil and the Progressive Democrats, house prices have trebled. In 1997, the average price of a new house was €97,000. House prices have increased by nine times the rate of inflation, five times the rate of increase in average earnings and four times the rate of increase in the cost of building. The failure by the Government to curtail the increase in house prices has had enormous social consequences. It has placed home ownership beyond the reach of large numbers of young people. It has imposed large financial burdens on those who have managed to buy a home. It has forced thousands of people, particularly those who work in Dublin, to move further and further away from the city in which they work.
Pick up a school history book and turn to the chapter on the industrial revolution, and there one reads of the long hours of workers in Victorian factories who went to work before dawn and returned after nightfall. In post-Celtic tiger Ireland, we have our own equivalent, those who wait at bus stops in Carlow, south Kildare and Louth, in the pre-dawn, to spend long hours travelling to and from the capital to work. This is the legacy of Fianna Fáil's failure to regulate the housing market. It is grossly inefficient and socially inequitable, and it is causing untold stress to the people concerned.
According to the local authority housing strategies, 33% of new families nationally cannot afford to buy a home. That percentage increases to 42% in urban areas and 50% in Dublin. For those who cannot afford to buy a home, other options have also been closed off. No serious attempt is being made to deal with problems in other housing tenures, including affordable housing, private rented accommodation and local authority housing.
Under this Government, the numbers on council housing lists have doubled, up from 26,000 in 1996 to over 60,000 now. However, less than 5,000 local authority houses are being built each year. By 2002, fewer than 10% of all residences were publicly provided, down from 33% in the mid-1970s. Again, in 2002, just less than 7% of households were living in local authority houses. At the same time, between 1995 and 2002, the stock of public housing in Dublin grew by a mere 447 houses per annum.
Under the partnership agreement, Sustaining Progress, the Government agreed to provide an additional 10,000 affordable houses. This was a fundamental issue for the trade union side in negotiating the programme and one which might well have been a "deal breaker" had it not been included. Instead, the deal breakers are the Government. Not a block has been laid or a sod turned on the promised 10,000 affordable houses. None of the houses has been built, none has been started, not one planning application has been lodged and no architects have even been appointed.
The Government that broke so many promises to the electorate has broken faith with the social partners and with the people who might have been able to purchase one of these homes. This has not, of course, stopped periodic announcements by the Government as to State lands that might be handed over for the building of these houses. We may yet hear another one before the local elections on 11 June. As people know by now, the Government's word counts for little. What we see are State owned lands being sold from time to time to private developers on a commercial basis. I have no difficulty with that, provided the housing departments of local authorities are given first refusal on such lands. Indeed, as the Labour group on Dublin City Council has argued, there is a need for a comprehensive audit of State-held property in the capital to determine what lands would be better used for housing.
Those who cannot afford to buy their own home or who remain on local authority housing lists are forced into the private rented sector, where rents have sky-rocketed in the past decade, and where tenants have few rights. Between 1998 and 2001 alone, average rents in Dublin increased by 53%, and nationally in the same period rents increased faster than in any other EU country. It is striking that during the past seven years of Fianna Fáil rule, more Irish families have lost their homes through eviction than during any equivalent period in the 19th century. Castle Rackrent is thriving, under the appreciative eye of Fianna Fáil. Four years after its publication, the report of the commission on the private rented sector has not been implemented. Meanwhile, the Government's main contribution to tackling the housing crisis this year was to include in its savage 16 welfare cuts changes to the rent allowance which will make it more difficult for people on social welfare to rent their own homes.
In this context, it is little wonder that the number of people homeless in our society has doubled under Fianna Fáil. It is an affront to a civilised society to have so many of our fellow citizens without homes, many living on our streets. I pay tribute to Deputy Stagg, my predecessor in office before I became Minister of State with responsibility for housing in a previous Administration, who tackled the issue head-on when it came to providing accommodation for homeless people. I inherited a policy which ensured people were given an opportunity to get accommodation if they found themselves homeless in Dublin. I recall the health board was able to name the 40 people who were still sleeping rough, having been offered the chance of a home. The problem had been reduced to that hard-core of homeless people. Homelessness has mushroomed during the Fianna Fáil-Progressive Democrats coalition's period in office.
Let us remember none of this is inevitable, rather it is the direct result of the approach and attitude that Fianna Fáil and the Progressive Democrats have taken to housing and the housing market. For as long as the Government persists in treating housing the same as any other commodity, to be used as a means of generating vast wealth for a few at the expense of the rest of the population, we will continue to have a housing crisis. For as long as the Government refuses to regulate the housing market in the public interest, we will continue to have a housing crisis. For as long as housing policy is dictated by special interests, we will continue to have a housing crisis.
If the Government chose to do so, it could tackle these problems. However, it must begin with a fundamental recognition that shelter and a home is a basic human requirement. The housing market is replete with monopolistic tendencies and market failures that justify intervention. It is not beyond the wit of man, or indeed woman, to develop an efficient, properly functioning housing market that serves our society and treats people fairly.
We can begin with a formal recognition of the importance of housing in our basic law. In the Labour Party's Twenty-First Amendment of the Constitution (No. 3) Bill 1999, we proposed adding the following to Article 40 of the Constitution: "The State, bearing in mind international legal standards, recognises the economic, social and cultural rights of all persons and, in particular, recognises: the right to an adequate standard of living, comprising adequate housing and nutrition and other means necessary to a dignified existence." The clause went on to state: "Where practicable, the enjoyment of these rights should in the first place be ensured by individual and family effort and initiative", but "Where persons or their dependants are unable adequately to exercise or enjoy any of these rights, the State guarantees, as far as practicable, by its laws to defend and vindicate these rights, in accordance with the principles of social justice."
In the society in which we live, with the wealth that surrounds us, there is no reason every citizen of this State cannot be housed. The right to shelter is a basic human right and one which this State should vindicate. We do not need to change our Constitution, however, to regulate the price of building land. Land speculation and profiteering is at the heart of the housing crisis and is the cause of the inexorable increase in house prices. It is striking that a house that costs €100,000 to build costs €300,000 to buy. A small number of land speculators are allowed to effectively control the supply of building land, keeping land prices high and earning supernormal profits on the sale of a vital social resource.
The solution to this problem is to allow local authorities to compulsorily purchase land at a reasonable mark-up over existing use value. This proposal is not new. It dates back to the Kenny report and would allow local authorities to purchase land at reasonable prices for building local authority houses and affordable housing and to ensure an adequate supply of building land being made available for voluntary housing associations and private house construction at reasonable prices. Hence the local authority would have the power to purchase building land at reasonable prices and to sell it on as it chose to builders. In tandem with this power, local authorities should always have a greater say over what is built and where. It is time we grasped the nettle of effective urban development with appropriate mixes of housing types and proper community facilities being provided at the same time as housing, not years afterwards.
I am pleased the Oireachtas Joint Committee on the Constitution has effectively endorsed Labour's proposals in this area and has agreed that constitutional change is not required for legislation to proceed. Our aim must be to slow the rate of increase in house prices, not to reduce them in nominal terms. What matters is the ratio of house prices to people's earnings and this can be improved only by keeping house price increases low while wages increase. To achieve this effective implementation of the Kenny proposals will require a national agency with the skills to monitor house prices nationally, and to ensure effective co-ordination of policies across local authorities. Our aim must be to ensure that a high level of housing output continues and that output is not curtailed as demand and supply in the market come into better balance. A national housing agency would also be in a position to help drive an agenda of housing market reform.
At the same time as tackling the problem of spiralling house prices there is a need to improve consumer rights for home buyers. There is a need for stronger action to ensure the quality of houses being built. We also need to protect house buyers against sharp practice by builders or estate agents. Consumers have a right to be protected against price gazumping and against the long-running sore of developers leaving estates unfinished which is not being addressed. People are still being forced to live for years on what are effectively building sites, even though they have paid very large prices for their houses. A core element of any strategy to resolve the housing crisis must be an increase in the production of social housing. Labour believes the number of local authority homes being built should be at least doubled. There is also an urgent need to change the income limits for the shared ownership scheme and the affordable housing scheme to make them more available.
Liz McManus (Wicklow, Labour)
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Needless to say it would be very useful if some signs of the famous 10,000 affordable houses promised under Sustaining Progress were even started before the programme expires. These are concrete steps the Government can and should take if it cared about first time buyers forced off the market, or the long hours spent commuting to work, or the stresses of working hours away from one's home, or the problems of homelessness, or the position of people who are stuck on local authority housing lists without any hope of getting accommodation.
This Government does not care about these issues or certainly not enough to do anything substantial about them, or discommode the special interest which is so assiduously and publicly courted by Fianna Fáil in particular. The housing crisis is not inevitable but it is certain that it will continue as long as Fianna Fáil and the Progressive Democrats remain in office.
Kathleen Lynch (Cork North Central, Labour)
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I am grateful to Deputy Gilmore and our deputy leader, Deputy McManus, for introducing this motion. First time buyers were hit by a double whammy, with the removal of the first time buyer's grant. The reason given for this in interviews at the time was the Government's belief that developers or builders were factoring the grant into the price of the house and therefore it was of little benefit to people buying houses. It was amazing to note that despite its removal the price of houses did not come down by €4,500 and the Government did nothing to make that happen.
Kathleen Lynch (Cork North Central, Labour)
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This was done without warning or without even considering the consequences for people who had factored the grant into the cost of their house. At the same time the Government insisted that local authorities introduce development levies. These levies on the average three-bedroom semi-detached house are approximately €6,000 to €8,000.
Bernard Durkan (Kildare North, Fine Gael)
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That is right, and more.
Kathleen Lynch (Cork North Central, Labour)
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The first time buyer lost the €4,500 grant and was asked to pay the €8,000 levy. Thus by direct intervention the Government has ensured that the cost of the house to the first time buyer has increased by more than €12,000. That is a conservative estimate because the price varies from one area to another. Even without those direct interventions a couple now hoping to buy the average three-bedroom semi-detached house would have to earn in the region of €100,000 per year. With jiggling, juggling, loans from families — because few families can afford to present young couples with the €20,000 usually required as a deposit — couples somehow manage to put together the mortgage payments, the stamp duty, and the rest to put a roof over their heads.
In the 1980s, a time of high unemployment, I argued that society was under threat because one could not make the normal transition from being part of a family to creating one's own family when one did not have the income necessary to do that. This Government has ensured that process is once again interrupted. Some years ago I read a Danish study of a phenomenon which I believed could never happen here. The study reported that there were more mothers leaving their families than vice versa because when the mothers died their children were still living at home. That is happening very quickly here, not because people do not want to be independent or live in their own homes but they cannot do that.
The social welfare chapter in the latest budget attacked not only those struggling to keep a roof over their heads but those seeking rent allowance. When Deputy Harney introduced the PDs policy in the 1997 election to the effect that lone parents should stay at home with their own parents, that is in the grandparents' house she was roundly criticised. The Minister for Social and Family Affairs, Deputy Coughlan, has introduced that same penalty by the backdoor. One now must be living in private rented accommodation for six months before being considered for rent allowance. That someone who qualifies for rent allowance would have enough money to sustain herself or himself in private rented accommodation for six months would indicate to me, if I were a social welfare officer, that this person did not need rent allowance in the first place. Why would one give it to that person? It is incomprehensible that this Government has decided that in order to put a roof over one's head one must now be at the very least upper middle class or have had one's name on a housing list for ten years.
Last year the cost of housing went up by between 13% and 16%, that is seven to eight times the rate of inflation. The price of housing is increasing by over €74 a day. Is it any wonder that one sees people outbidding each other in desperation. They know that whatever about their chance of buying this year, this time next year their chance will be gone entirely. There has been a large increase in the incidence of parents being co-owners of houses with young people, which is the only way they can acquire mortgages. The Government pretends it is not happening. Why should it worry about it? We should worry about it because it is interfering with the natural process. If we are not worried about that, I do not know where we will end up.
Although 60,000 people are on local authority waiting lists the budget was cut by 16%. Taking inflation into account the cut grows to 20%. If no additional person goes on local authority waiting lists in the next 12 years, at this rate we will only have cleared the current list by then. We all know that will not happen because people are not earning enough to get a mortgage but are earning too much to be considered for affordable housing. The consequences of this for society are serious, yet it does not appear to matter.
The motion before the House may appear to be something that has already been heard, but it goes to the very heart of how we organise society. I am sick and tired of hearing the Tánaiste say she will not interfere or she cannot interfere, that she does not believe in interfering. However, the Government interferes on a daily basis. It directly interferes in the market to help those it clearly sees as its supporters. They are the ones who are benefiting from this crisis.
Tommy Broughan (Dublin North East, Labour)
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They own Fianna Fáil. They have owned it for 40 years.
Bernard Durkan (Kildare North, Fine Gael)
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A change of ownership will not take place.
Kathleen Lynch (Cork North Central, Labour)
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At the end of the day the ordinary person on the street is the victim of all of that. This country should be at the top of the scale in regard to services. We should not even be having this discussion. We are still talking about the most basic and fundamental rights of any citizen. Citizenship is in vogue and we are still debating the issues of housing and health.
Jan O'Sullivan (Limerick East, Labour)
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I will pick up where my colleague left off. Housing lists and the number of people looking for housing from local authorities will continue to increase. The Minister needs to take action on market intervention or he will have a problem that cannot be solved. Action needs to be taken in accordance with the recommendations of the All-Party Oireachtas Committee on the Constitution, of which I am a member.
I will begin by addressing the issues raised by that committee. The Taoiseach wrote to the former Chairman of that committee, Deputy Brian Lenihan, in February 2000 asking it to address the issue of house prices and whether the Constitution was an impediment to taking action to address the escalating price of houses and the fact that so many ordinary families could no longer afford to buy a home. The committee addressed the matter in spring 2003. It invited submissions on the issue from the public in April 2003. We received 140 written submissions and the committee subsequently heard 50 oral submissions in July and September last year.
The committee subsequently held a number of meetings and a report was published in April 2004. The report was agreed by all parties, which included the two Government parties, all Opposition parties and one Independent Member. In effect, it represented all the interests in this House. There was no dissent on the recommendation which, as my colleague, Deputy McManus said, was that of the Labour Party, namely, we could implement the terms of the Kenny report and there was no need to change the Constitution, particularly in order to address the issue of providing affordable land to local authorities so they build houses or arrange for houses to be built in order to address the needs of those on housing lists.
As a member of that committee, I ask the Minister of State to explain why no action was taken. The implication had been that the Government could not do anything about the price of housing because of constitutional impediments. The conclusion of the committee was that the Constitution was not an obstacle and that its recommendations should be implemented. It is no harm to read Article 43 of the Constitution which states:
The State acknowledges that man, in virtue of his rational being, has the natural right, antecedent to positive law, to the private ownership of external goods. The State accordingly guarantees to pass no law attempting to abolish the right of private ownership or the general right to transfer, bequeath, and inherit property. The State recognises, however, that the exercise of the rights mentioned in the foregoing provisions of this Article ought, in civil society, to be regulated by the principles of social justice. The State, accordingly, may as occasion requires delimit by law the exercise of the said rights with a view to reconciling their exercise with the exigencies of the common good.
We agreed that because of the exigencies of the common good one could intervene and bring about some legislative change that would free up land at affordable prices for local authorities to build houses. In effect, that was the conclusion of the Kenny report, namely, that land could be bought by local authorities to build housing at existing value plus 25%. When will the Minister implement the recommendations and bring forward legislation so housing can be provided for existing needs? We need to intervene in the market to ensure that ordinary families can afford to buy houses and that local authorities can build them.
That report also made recommendations in regard to social and affordable housing. It suggested, for example, that section 48 of the Planning and Development Act 2000 should be amended to include social housing under the definition of public infrastructure and facilities. It also suggested that local authorities should identify lands in their development plans and reserve them for social and affordable housing to ensure a greater supply of social and affordable housing is made available without influence from external market and competitive forces to enable residential areas to be planned in a socially-inclusive manner and to control the cost of zoned land designated for the provision of social and affordable housing. There is a great deal in the report but the main recommendations are that the Minister can introduce legislation that will address the issue.
Tommy Broughan (Dublin North East, Labour)
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Has the Minister of State read the report?
Bernard Durkan (Kildare North, Fine Gael)
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That was a dramatic reaction.
Jan O'Sullivan (Limerick East, Labour)
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What we are faced with at the moment, and what needs to be dealt with, is the fact that rich people are holding land while other people cannot afford to buy houses, and local authorities are not in a position to supply the number of houses needed. Large sums of money are being made on rezoned land that is needed for housing and infrastructure. Local authorities are finding it harder to get sites for social and affordable housing. However, if legislation is introduced following the recommendations of the all-party committee they will find it much easier to obtain sites for social and affordable housing. Local authorities, by the end of this month, must draw up action plans for social and affordable housing for the period 2004-08. In that context, it will be important for them to see legislation in place to address the issues with which they are obliged to deal.
An opportunity exists in respect of housing for elderly people in particular. Many elderly people are experiencing difficulties in terms of staying safely and healthily in their homes. A real opportunity exists to provide supported housing for the elderly. The Minister of State must address this matter in conjunction with the Department of Health and Children. Part of the problem with housing is that it is provided by a number of Departments. For example, the Department of Health and Children is responsible for addressing certain issues relating to the elderly and the disabled. The housing section of the Department of the Environment, Heritage and Local Government is not addressing these issues and is ceding responsibility for them to the Department of Health and Children.
Deputy Lynch addressed the issue of rent subsidies. However, I wish to speak about the appalling decision by the Minister for Social and Family Affairs regarding rent subsidies. People who need such subsidies simply cannot afford to pay for housing in the private sector for six months. If the original proposal to the effect that rent and mortgage subsidies should come under the remit of local government had been implemented, there would have been no need to table the motion before the House. Local authorities understand the needs of the people who are on housing lists. Perhaps the Minister of State will indicate whether a proposal exists for his Department to assume responsibility for rent subsidies. What the Minister for Social and Family Affairs, Deputy Coughlan, has done is not acceptable. My party intends to campaign vigorously to ensure that this one of the savage 16 cuts is reversed.
Members hear about examples of the matters to which I refer each day in respect of the cases with which they deal. I dealt with a case yesterday involving a young woman who is living at home in her mother's house. She and her sister have one child each and there are a number of other family members living in the house. She, her sister and their two babies are obliged to share one bedroom in a small house on a local authority housing estate. That is not acceptable. The house is overcrowded and if the young woman could have obtained a rent allowance she could have moved into private rented——
Noel Ahern (Dublin North West, Fianna Fail)
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She could get it if she wanted.
Bernard Durkan (Kildare North, Fine Gael)
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She cannot get it. The Minister of State is not living in the real world.
Jan O'Sullivan (Limerick East, Labour)
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She must wait six months before she qualifies.
Tommy Broughan (Dublin North East, Labour)
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The Minister of State should talk to the Minister for Social and Family Affairs, Deputy Coughlan, about this matter.
Jan O'Sullivan (Limerick East, Labour)
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The Minister of State has a better understanding of this matter than does the Minister, Deputy Coughlan, and Deputy Broughan is correct in stating that he should talk to her about the situations which we, as public representatives, must deal with each day as a result of the cut to which I refer. Local authorities want to address these issues. However, this cut, which appeared out of the blue, has meant that many people who would previously have been able to occupy rented accommodation until local authorities could house them have been obliged to return to their family homes and this has led to the creation of overcrowded and unsafe conditions.
Deputy McManus referred to affordable housing. The concept of such housing is good because it addresses the needs of those in the middle income trap who cannot afford a mortgage, who need housing but who cannot be accommodated by their local authorities because they are not high enough on the priority list. The position is similar with shared ownership. The shared ownership scheme was initially a good idea and probably remains so in some areas where house prices are relatively low. However, in areas where prices have escalated, those who qualify for the scheme because of their levels of income simply cannot find a house in the private market which meets the requirements. I acknowledge that the shared ownership and affordable housing schemes are good and have a great deal of potential. However, that potential is not being realised. In that context, the Minister of State needs to address the issues identified by the All-Party Oireachtas Committee on the Constitution.
The Minister of State is aware that I have an interest in the voluntary housing sector. That sector also has great potential, particularly in terms of assisting him and local authorities in the provision of social and affordable housing. Voluntary housing associations, particularly in terms of the housing of elderly people, can develop imaginative schemes. I saw one such scheme recently when I was canvassing in County Limerick. It is a sheltered scheme where elderly people have their own individual accommodation but where there is a supervisor on the premises, where there are shared communal facilities and where the residents enjoy security and safety. Schemes of this nature can be put in place with the co-operation of the voluntary housing sector.
There is a great deal to be done. There are many homeless people, particularly in the capital city. It is a disgrace that this situation continues to obtain when we have so much wealth at our disposal. There are proposals in the report to which I referred which have the potential to address the problems that exist in a radical fashion. They must be implemented in conjunction with more support for local authorities in terms of their efforts to provide social and affordable housing, increased interaction with the voluntary sector and a commitment to take this important issue seriously. I do not doubt the Minister of State's commitment. However, there must be a commitment from the Government that the provision of affordable housing for everybody in our society, right across the spectrum, must be given priority and placed at the top of the agenda. Sadly, the latter is not the case at present.
If there is a commitment forthcoming in respect of the report and in terms of the Department supporting local authorities in the provision of social and affordable housing, we will believe that the issues to which I refer are being addressed. At present, these issues are not priorities for the Government.
Noel Ahern (Dublin North West, Fianna Fail)
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I move amendment No. 1:
To delete all words after "Dáil Éireann" and substitute the following:
"acknowledges the achievements of the Government in:
—increasing housing supply as the key response to the broad range of housing needs and demand;
—achieving the 9th successive year of record housing completions involving the addition of 68,819 new houses in Ireland in 2004;—
Tommy Broughan (Dublin North East, Labour)
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One third of them were bought by investors.
Noel Ahern (Dublin North West, Fianna Fail)
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——continuing to develop measures to address affordability;
—putting in place a strong social and affordable housing programme involving investment of €1.8 billion in 2004;
—progressing the commitment in the Sustaining Progress partnership agreement to the delivery of an ambitious scale of affordable housing——
Rory O'Hanlon (Cavan-Monaghan, Ceann Comhairle)
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The Minister of State, without interruption.
Noel Ahern (Dublin North West, Fianna Fail)
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——through the affordable housing initiative and Part V of the Planning and Development Acts 2000-2002 and to reviewing the effectiveness of programmes designed to assist low income groups, including those with social and special housing needs; and
—introducing and resourcing an integrated strategy on homelessness;
and supports the continued actions by the Government to increase housing supply, and focus public expenditure on responding to the needs of low income households and those with special needs through a broad range of targeted initiatives."
I am please to have the opportunity to address the House on the important subject of housing and to again set out the Government's approach to housing——
Bernard Durkan (Kildare North, Fine Gael)
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There is a crisis in the area of housing.
Rory O'Hanlon (Cavan-Monaghan, Ceann Comhairle)
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Deputy Durkan should allow the Minister to continue without interruption.
Noel Ahern (Dublin North West, Fianna Fail)
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——and the positive effects thereof. It is blatantly obvious that the Labour Party tables this sort of standard motion every few months to create news and obtain a few soundbites——
Tommy Broughan (Dublin North East, Labour)
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The Minister of State talked about RAPID, but did not deliver it.
Noel Ahern (Dublin North West, Fianna Fail)
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——in the run-up to the local elections.
Rory O'Hanlon (Cavan-Monaghan, Ceann Comhairle)
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The Minister of State, without interruption.
Noel Ahern (Dublin North West, Fianna Fail)
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One could say that if the Labour Party cannot come up with anything——
Tommy Broughan (Dublin North East, Labour)
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Will the Minister of State give way?
Rory O'Hanlon (Cavan-Monaghan, Ceann Comhairle)
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It is too early in the debate for the Minister to give way.
Tommy Broughan (Dublin North East, Labour)
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Will the Minister of State give way?
Rory O'Hanlon (Cavan-Monaghan, Ceann Comhairle)
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Will the Deputy resume his seat? The Labour Party had 40 minutes to propose the motion and its Members were allowed to do so without interruption.
Tommy Broughan (Dublin North East, Labour)
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Will the Minister of State give way?
Noel Ahern (Dublin North West, Fianna Fail)
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No. I listened for 40 minutes and I am entitled to have my say.
Rory O'Hanlon (Cavan-Monaghan, Ceann Comhairle)
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It is only towards the end of a contribution that a Member may be asked to give way. The Minister of State cannot be asked to give way at this stage.
Tommy Broughan (Dublin North East, Labour)
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The Minister of State has made an outrageous start to a useless contribution.
Rory O'Hanlon (Cavan-Monaghan, Ceann Comhairle)
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Deputy Broughan should resume his seat and allow the Minister of State to continue without interruption. He is entitled to the same courtesy as every other Member of the House.
Noel Ahern (Dublin North West, Fianna Fail)
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I thank the Ceann Comhairle. These are standard Labour Party tactics and we see them used on Leaders' Questions every day.
Bernard Durkan (Kildare North, Fine Gael)
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The Minister of State will do the officers out of a job.
Noel Ahern (Dublin North West, Fianna Fail)
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Recent years have witnessed an unprecedented demand for housing, brought about by a number of economic and demographic changes, including rising disposable incomes, historically-low interest rates and changing household formation patterns. These factors continue to place significant pressure on housing demand and house prices. The Government's strategy is to increase housing supply to meet demand and to improve affordability, particularly for first-time buyers, and in this way seek to bring moderation to house price increases.
Tommy Broughan (Dublin North East, Labour)
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What about the income limits? The Minister of State should tell us about them.
Noel Ahern (Dublin North West, Fianna Fail)
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One should look at the economy over recent years or the census returns which issued some months ago. They show the population of the country rose by 8%, approximately 270,000 people, in six years. One would not find another country in the world, not to mind Europe, where the population increased by 8% nationally in six years. That is an enormous increase in population. Many people who have come back to the country are of an age where they are setting up house and that obviously puts pressure on the situation.
Bernard Durkan (Kildare North, Fine Gael)
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The Government is not providing for them.
Noel Ahern (Dublin North West, Fianna Fail)
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In previous decades there was not such a demand for housing. There was a surplus of housing.
Bernard Durkan (Kildare North, Fine Gael)
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When we had no money in the country we were able to provide houses.
Noel Ahern (Dublin North West, Fianna Fail)
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When Fine Gael and the Labour Party were in power we usually had a recession and people were getting on the boat to get out of the country as quickly as they could.
Bernard Durkan (Kildare North, Fine Gael)
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What a load of rubbish. The Minister of State should be ashamed for making such excuses.
Rory O'Hanlon (Cavan-Monaghan, Ceann Comhairle)
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Allow the Minister of State to continue without interruption.
Noel Ahern (Dublin North West, Fianna Fail)
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Obviously, if we have an economic boom and ——
Bernard Durkan (Kildare North, Fine Gael)
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House prices have quadrupled in the past five years.
Rory O'Hanlon (Cavan-Monaghan, Ceann Comhairle)
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Deputy Durkan will have an opportunity to contribute later.
Noel Ahern (Dublin North West, Fianna Fail)
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—— huge numbers of people return to the country, having emigrated in previous decades, at an age group where they are setting up home, it puts pressure on the situation.
The Opposition could only look on while this Government led the economic transformation which brought a degree of prosperity unimaginable a generation ago. I agree there is pressure on prices, however, price is not everything. It is about affordability and what people are paying back. The Government's approach to meeting housing needs has clearly been seen to be working.
Tommy Broughan (Dublin North East, Labour)
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The Minister of State's constituents have had to move to Cavan, the only place they can afford a house. They are up with the Ceann Comhairle.
Noel Ahern (Dublin North West, Fianna Fail)
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I plead with the Chair to intervene. I had the manners to listen to the Opposition. I do not mind a little heckling but I should be given the chance to speak. Our success is evidenced by our outstanding house completions record.
Bernard Durkan (Kildare North, Fine Gael)
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The Minister of State has had his chance for the past seven years. When will he give the people a chance?
Rory O'Hanlon (Cavan-Monaghan, Ceann Comhairle)
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Allow the Minister of State to continue.
Noel Ahern (Dublin North West, Fianna Fail)
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I might have some news for the Deputy, why does he not listen?
Bernard Durkan (Kildare North, Fine Gael)
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I am upset. Why does the Minister of State not give the people a chance?
Noel Ahern (Dublin North West, Fianna Fail)
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It amuses me to hear people such as the Deputy ranting and raving all the time about social housing when the local authority of which he was a member until recently would not build any such houses.
Bernard Durkan (Kildare North, Fine Gael)
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The Minister of State should go out and tell the people why they are homeless.
Rory O'Hanlon (Cavan-Monaghan, Ceann Comhairle)
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Allow the Minister of State to speak without interruption.
Noel Ahern (Dublin North West, Fianna Fail)
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The Deputy should listen for a while.
Bernard Durkan (Kildare North, Fine Gael)
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I have listened for the past seven years.
Rory O'Hanlon (Cavan-Monaghan, Ceann Comhairle)
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The Chair will have to take appropriate action if Deputy Durkan does not allow the Minister of State to speak without interruption. The Minister of State should address his remarks through the Chair.
Bernard Durkan (Kildare North, Fine Gael)
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I apologise, he is inviting hostility.
Noel Ahern (Dublin North West, Fianna Fail)
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The year 2003 was the ninth record year for house completions, with 68,819 units completed, an increase in output of over 19% on 2002——
Noel Ahern (Dublin North West, Fianna Fail)
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——and an increase of 10.5% in output in the greater Dublin area during the same period. To put that in context, because 68,819 of itself might not register, a mere ten years ago, in 1993, that figure was 22,000 houses. The move from 22,000 to 68,000 is an enormous increase.
Bernard Durkan (Kildare North, Fine Gael)
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In the 1970s we were building more houses than the Minister of State is building for the complete rural housing list.
Noel Ahern (Dublin North West, Fianna Fail)
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The figures for the 1970s and 1980s were always approximately 22,000, 24,000 or 25,000. It was like that for years. However, a mere ten years ago the figure was 22,000. In ten years it has gone from 22,000 to 68,000 which is extraordinary.
I am not sure what the Labour Party is trying to say in bringing forward this motion. Does it want us to reverse the policies which now see Ireland at the top of the European house building league?
Bernard Durkan (Kildare North, Fine Gael)
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The Minister of State should reverse something.
Noel Ahern (Dublin North West, Fianna Fail)
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The Deputy may not fully appreciate the numbers. However, there is a European index which shows the number of houses built each year per 1,000 of the population. We have a rate of 17 houses per year per 1,000 of population. We are not just at the head of the list but miles ahead of the others.
Tommy Broughan (Dublin North East, Labour)
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Nobody can afford them.
Noel Ahern (Dublin North West, Fianna Fail)
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In the European context Portugal is next with approximately ten per 1,000 of population. The United Kingdom is at three per 1,000 of population and other advanced countries like Sweden are at one per 1,000 of population. We are at 17 new houses per 1,000 of population per year, which is an incredible output.
Bernard Durkan (Kildare North, Fine Gael)
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Who is getting these houses?
Noel Ahern (Dublin North West, Fianna Fail)
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Increasing the supply of serviced residential land through targeted initiatives and the commitment of Exchequer funding has also been effective. There is approximately a five-year supply of serviced residential land nationally and about an eight-year supply in Dublin.
Tommy Broughan (Dublin North East, Labour)
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It is being released in dribs and drabs.
Noel Ahern (Dublin North West, Fianna Fail)
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I accept the rate of house price increases is a problem. However, it has moderated considerably since the late 1990s.
Bernard Durkan (Kildare North, Fine Gael)
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We have been hearing that for the past seven years. It is the same old mantra every year.
Noel Ahern (Dublin North West, Fianna Fail)
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A number of market commentators, including the Central Bank, now predict greater balance in the housing market over the next few years, as increased supply has a dampening effect on house prices. Affordability has also been assisted by a range of factors, including high levels of economic growth which have facilitated lower tax levels, increased disposable income, increased employment, lower mortgage interest rates and low inflation. This is what it is about.
While Deputies may talk about prices having risen by 300%, 500% or whatever, the real test is affordability.
Tommy Broughan (Dublin North East, Labour)
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The Minister of State's own constituents have to live in Cavan, Louth and all over the place.
Noel Ahern (Dublin North West, Fianna Fail)
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My constituents live in Dublin North-West. If Deputies look at what people are paying on their mortgage, the true test of affordability, the percentage of the disposable income being paid on a mortgage is only fractionally greater than it was ten years ago.
Bernard Durkan (Kildare North, Fine Gael)
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That is rubbish. People would want three incomes in a household now. Where has the Minister of State been and who has been telling him this rubbish?
Noel Ahern (Dublin North West, Fianna Fail)
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It does not make me or any of us happy that the benefits or dividend from falling interest rates has gone into developers' pockets.
Bernard Durkan (Kildare North, Fine Gael)
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He should find out who is giving him this rubbish and have a good chat with them.
Noel Ahern (Dublin North West, Fianna Fail)
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I will ignore the Deputy from now on. I was trying to respond.
Bernard Durkan (Kildare North, Fine Gael)
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He has been ignoring the rest of the country for long enough.
Noel Ahern (Dublin North West, Fianna Fail)
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Indicative data available to the Department also shows that first-time buyers continue to have a significant presence in the housing market. This is supported by the CSO quarterly national household survey for the third quarter of last year, which indicates that almost 50% of house purchasers since 1996 were first-time buyers. The survey also pointed out that some 62% of homeowners surveyed had no mortgage or loans on their dwellings compared to 58.8% some six years ago. While the survey indicates that the majority of these homeowners purchased some 20 years ago, it states that approximately a quarter of the purchasers in the past eight years had no mortgage.
Tommy Broughan (Dublin North East, Labour)
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They were all investors.
Noel Ahern (Dublin North West, Fianna Fail)
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My Department is continuing to examine possible measures aimed at moderating land costs for housing and other essential public infrastructure. The report on ownership and control of building land, which was commissioned by my Department from Goodbody Economic Consultants, forms part of that process. It remains under consideration and will be published when the examination is complete.
I welcome the ninth progress report of the All-Party Oireachtas Committee on the Constitution, referred to by Deputy O'Sullivan, on the subject of property rights. My Department will give detailed consideration to all its recommendations as part of that examination, in consultation with other Departments, as appropriate. I have noted the committee's view that capping the price of building land does not require a constitutional amendment and the Attorney General will be consulted on this and other related matters.
Tommy Broughan (Dublin North East, Labour)
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When will the Minister of State do that? Let him make a name for himself.
Noel Ahern (Dublin North West, Fianna Fail)
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The National Economic and Social Council is currently undertaking a major study on housing and land policy ——
Bernard Durkan (Kildare North, Fine Gael)
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Why is that? Is it because of the Minister of State's failure?
Noel Ahern (Dublin North West, Fianna Fail)
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I understand that will be finalised shortly. Following that, the Goodbody report and the report of the all-party committee, Deputies can expect to see action. All three reports, and any other relevant analysis and research, will be considered in finalising a policy response to these issues.
The Government considers consumer issues as part of an effective market to be important. My Department works with all the relevant stakeholders to ensure that relevant consumer issues are considered and addressed. The Director of Consumer Affairs and the Irish Financial Services Regulatory Authority also have roles in this regard. A range of developments is under way which will benefit the overall consumer dimension of the housing market. For example, the Irish Home Builders' Association produced a code of practice in 1999 that deals with a number of consumer issues relating to housing, including booking deposits and stage payments. The code of practice covers about 80% of house builders in Ireland. It is also important to point out, from a quality of housing perspective, that the Irish National Survey of Housing Quality for 2001-2002, which was based on a survey of more than 40,000 completed questionnaires, showed that 92% of households are satisfied with the general condition of their accommodation.
The Law Reform Commission also published a report on gazumping in 1999 that examined the practice of taking booking deposits on the sale of new residential properties. The commission concluded that the current legal position, which does not confer any interest in property upon the payment of a booking deposit, generally benefits the purchaser more than the vendor.
Bernard Durkan (Kildare North, Fine Gael)
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That is the first time I heard that one. I have heard many an argument but that is the best one — if a purchaser loses his or her deposit, it is of benefit to the purchaser.
Noel Ahern (Dublin North West, Fianna Fail)
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The Deputy should read the Law Reform Commission's report. This allows the purchaser the flexibility to conduct the necessary preliminary investigations, whether in the financial, physical or legal field, before committing to an irrevocable agreement. Among the commission's recommendations was the introduction and adherence to voluntary codes of practice such as the Irish Home Builders' Association code.
Other developments in the area of consumer protection include the High Court case which was taken by the Director of Consumer Affairs in 2001 under the European Communities (Unfair Terms in Consumer Contracts) Regulations 1995. This case was supported by my Department and, among other things, the High Court order arising from the case endorsed the IHBA code of practice with regard to stage payments and prohibited stage payments in house building contracts that exceeded the levels set out in the code of practice or which exceeded the value of works carried out by the payment date.
The Government responded actively to the increased level of housing need by significantly expanding social and affordable housing output. Last year saw the delivery of the highest level of output under the range of social and affordable housing measures for more than 15 years when the social and affordable housing needs of in excess of 13,600 households were met.
Nonetheless, the Government remains concerned to ensure that the broad spectrum of housing needs are met. More than €5 billion has been spent in the first four years of the national development plan on social and affordable housing measures, more than 7% ahead of the forecast for that period, reflecting the strong commitment of the Government to continue to meet the needs of low income groups and those with social and special housing needs.
In overall terms, the total capital funding for housing this year, Exchequer and non-Exchequer, of €1.884 billion represents an increase of 5.4% on last year's provision when inflation is 1.7%. The increase in the housing provision will enable the social and affordable housing needs of approximately 13,000 households——
Bernard Durkan (Kildare North, Fine Gael)
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They will qualify for the old age pension before they will qualify for a house.
Noel Ahern (Dublin North West, Fianna Fail)
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——to be met this year compared to almost 8,500 households a few years ago.
Tommy Broughan (Dublin North East, Labour)
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What about the 60,000 on the waiting list?
Noel Ahern (Dublin North West, Fianna Fail)
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There are 48,000 on the housing waiting list.
Bernard Durkan (Kildare North, Fine Gael)
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The Minister of State has cut the number again?
Noel Ahern (Dublin North West, Fianna Fail)
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The figure of 48,000 is the last official one.
Noel Ahern (Dublin North West, Fianna Fail)
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The housing needs of 13,500 households will be met this year. When 13,500 households are taken off the list, I am not suggesting that the number of households on the list will fall by that number, as others will come on the list.
Bernard Durkan (Kildare North, Fine Gael)
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How many households' housing needs were met last year? Only some 5,000.
Noel Ahern (Dublin North West, Fianna Fail)
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In effect, we are consolidating the significant progress made in recent years and we are maintaining a high level of commitment to the provision of social and affordable housing.
Tommy Broughan (Dublin North East, Labour)
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Why does the Minister of State not increase the limit?
Bernard Durkan (Kildare North, Fine Gael)
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When will the Minister of State do that?
Noel Ahern (Dublin North West, Fianna Fail)
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That is not always the solution to everything. Deputy Broughan and I were members of another forum and he will understand that when such a change is made we can suddenly start to cater for the needs of a slightly higher income group.
Bernard Durkan (Kildare North, Fine Gael)
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That is utter nonsense.
Noel Ahern (Dublin North West, Fianna Fail)
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The shared ownership and the affordable housing schemes are in place——
Noel Ahern (Dublin North West, Fianna Fail)
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Will the Deputy keep quiet?
Noel Ahern (Dublin North West, Fianna Fail)
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——to cater for the housing needs of people in a particular income bracket.
Bernard Durkan (Kildare North, Fine Gael)
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The Minister of State is codding us along with trying to cod the people outside this House.
Noel Ahern (Dublin North West, Fianna Fail)
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If we increase the limit to too high a figure or too suddenly, we will end up catering for the housing needs of a different income bracket.
Tommy Broughan (Dublin North East, Labour)
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The Minister of State has not increased the limit over the years.
Noel Ahern (Dublin North West, Fianna Fail)
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I agree that the time has come for us to examine it.
Bernard Durkan (Kildare North, Fine Gael)
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Why has the Minister of State not done that?
Noel Ahern (Dublin North West, Fianna Fail)
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This matter is being given serious consideration. If I had moved on it in recent weeks, the Deputy would say that was an election ploy. One cannot win in this bloody country.
Tommy Broughan (Dublin North East, Labour)
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We welcome this indication.
Noel Ahern (Dublin North West, Fianna Fail)
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I assure the Deputies that I am giving this serious consideration.
Bernard Durkan (Kildare North, Fine Gael)
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At last there is a sign of hope.
Noel Ahern (Dublin North West, Fianna Fail)
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If the Deputy did not ballyrag me, I might announce something tomorrow.
Bernard Durkan (Kildare North, Fine Gael)
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The Minister of State should talk to some of the people outside this House, if he thinks this is ballyragging.
Noel Ahern (Dublin North West, Fianna Fail)
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I assure the Deputy that I am seriously considering this matter.
In this regard, I have asked local authorities to put in place five year action plans covering the full range of their housing programmes. These plans, to be agreed with my Department, will ensure that a fully strategic approach is taken by local authorities and will ensure that they avail of the certainty provided by multi-annual expenditure programmes.
Government interventions have boosted the supply of affordable housing under targeted schemes for low and middle-income purchasers. More than 8,000 households have benefited under the shared ownership and affordable housing schemes in the past five years. I have visited a number of developments in different local authorities. I was in the midlands a few weeks ago and noted that affordable houses were being produced at €122,000 and €125,000, which represents good value. I was in Finglas in my constituency a few weeks ago. Deputy Broughan will be aware that the north west committee of the city council was often the more pro-active in this regard, and I know that some of these houses are being built in the Deputy's area. There were a number of houses on local authority sites selling at between €150,000 and €200,000, which represents good value when people can get such low mortgage rates.
Bernard Durkan (Kildare North, Fine Gael)
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Many poor unfortunate people are waiting for such houses. They have the same chance of getting a house as winning the national lottery.
Noel Ahern (Dublin North West, Fianna Fail)
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Last year more than 1,500 families——
Bernard Durkan (Kildare North, Fine Gael)
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Out of a total of some 50,000 or 60,000
Noel Ahern (Dublin North West, Fianna Fail)
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——moved into those homes. The provision of these houses in different local authority areas throughout the country are meeting a real need.
Tommy Broughan (Dublin North East, Labour)
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One has to win a draw to get a house.
Noel Ahern (Dublin North West, Fianna Fail)
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What is wrong with that?
Bernard Durkan (Kildare North, Fine Gael)
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It is like the national lottery. It a case of making the people beg.
Noel Ahern (Dublin North West, Fianna Fail)
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In some cases local authorities are having a draw to assign the houses. That indicates that people are taking up these houses and consider them good value.
Bernard Durkan (Kildare North, Fine Gael)
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Why does the Government not allocate funding to build enough of them to cater for people's needs?
Noel Ahern (Dublin North West, Fianna Fail)
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Last year some 1,500 units were built. I urge Deputies who have contacts in local authorities or who are friendly with councillors to push for the development of these housing sites. Many Members here made a good deal of noise but the local authority areas from which they come are pathetic in that they are not doing anything to provide social or affordable housing.
Bernard Durkan (Kildare North, Fine Gael)
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I have been asking the Minister of State to provide for such needs for the past five years. He is in a position to direct local authorities in this regard but he will not do so.
Noel Ahern (Dublin North West, Fianna Fail)
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I ask the Deputy to assist in this regard because his local authority area, to put it mildly is not one of the best. The Deputy might do something to assist us in that direction.
Bernard Durkan (Kildare North, Fine Gael)
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The Deputy is the Minister of State.
Noel Ahern (Dublin North West, Fianna Fail)
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I anticipate that the numbers of such purchasers benefiting from affordable housing will further increase this year as more affordable housing comes on stream as a result of agreements under Part V of the Planning and Development Act.
The new affordable housing initiative introduced under the national partnership agreement, Sustaining Progress, is also being progressed as a priority. The Government made two announcements in July and December last year on the release of State and local authority lands in Dublin, Kildare, Meath, Cork and Waterford to the initiative. Both announcements are critical steps in ensuring early delivery of affordable housing on these sites and under the initiative and together with output from Part V will result in about 6,100 additional affordable housing units.
The Taoiseach recently turned the sod on the Finglas Road site making the commencement of the first initiative project and Dublin City Council will soon seek expressions of interest for the development of the sites at the Jamestown and Infirmary Roads. I ask the Deputies not to claim that a block has not yet been laid. One most certainly has been laid because that site on the Finglas Road is under construction.
Tommy Broughan (Dublin North East, Labour)
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The Government will be out of office by the time it is finished.
Noel Ahern (Dublin North West, Fianna Fail)
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There are 166 affordable homes under construction on that site.
Bernard Durkan (Kildare North, Fine Gael)
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By the time those houses come on stream the Minister of State will have long since retired.
Tommy Broughan (Dublin North East, Labour)
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There will be a different Minister of State with responsibility for housing.
Noel Ahern (Dublin North West, Fianna Fail)
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Significant progress has been made on the development of a delivery model for the houses and the eligibility criteria for the potential house purchasers. It takes time to plan and deliver housing on a site.
Noel Ahern (Dublin North West, Fianna Fail)
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Whether such housing is social, affordable or private, any developer would tell one that on acquiring a site it takes three to four years before one will start to produce houses. That is one of the problems; it is not like turning on the tap.
Bernard Durkan (Kildare North, Fine Gael)
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It used to take six months.
Noel Ahern (Dublin North West, Fianna Fail)
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The proof of that is that the real benefit of the 1999 scheme is coming on stream. In its motion, the Labour Party mentioned the changes to the social welfare allowance rent supplement scheme. The Minister for Social and Family Affairs has given specific assurances on a number of occasions that the measures will not result in hardship to people in need.
Bernard Durkan (Kildare North, Fine Gael)
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That is not true, it happens every day.
Tommy Broughan (Dublin North East, Labour)
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The Minister danced all over the Minister of State's Department.
John Cregan (Limerick West, Fianna Fail)
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The Deputies should listen to the Minister of State.
Noel Ahern (Dublin North West, Fianna Fail)
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My officials and I had a good deal of contact with the Department of Social and Family Affairs during the period between the announcement of the changes by the Minister, Deputy Coughlan, in the context of the Estimates for 2004 and the making by her of regulations to give legal effect to the measures.
Tommy Broughan (Dublin North East, Labour)
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Nobody listened to the Minister of State.
Noel Ahern (Dublin North West, Fianna Fail)
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I stressed the need for adequate safeguards——
Tommy Broughan (Dublin North East, Labour)
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The Minister of State was ignored.
Tommy Broughan (Dublin North East, Labour)
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The Minister of State was completely ignored.
Noel Ahern (Dublin North West, Fianna Fail)
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These measures were needed to ensure that people with genuine needs would not be adversely affected.
Bernard Durkan (Kildare North, Fine Gael)
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The Minister of State was out-ranked.
Noel Ahern (Dublin North West, Fianna Fail)
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There was also a need to monitor closely the operation of the measures. These matters were reflected in the regulations made by the Minister, Deputy Coughlan, and the guidelines issued by her Department. Deputies continue to talk about the media's interpretation, or their own interpretation, of the events of last November.
Tommy Broughan (Dublin North East, Labour)
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We encounter it every day.
Noel Ahern (Dublin North West, Fianna Fail)
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They should look at the guidelines.
Jan O'Sullivan (Limerick East, Labour)
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We see it all the time.
Noel Ahern (Dublin North West, Fianna Fail)
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Deputy O'Sullivan spoke about people in her constituency. All they have to do is to go to their local authority to have their needs assessed and to get their points. They will qualify for the rent allowance if they need it.
Bernard Durkan (Kildare North, Fine Gael)
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Will they get a house?
Noel Ahern (Dublin North West, Fianna Fail)
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There is no need for them——
Bernard Durkan (Kildare North, Fine Gael)
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They have to be homeless before they can get a house.
Bernard Durkan (Kildare North, Fine Gael)
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I beg your pardon, they do.
Noel Ahern (Dublin North West, Fianna Fail)
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I have tried to make the position clear to Deputy Durkan.
Bernard Durkan (Kildare North, Fine Gael)
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I will cite the relevant circumstances tomorrow night.
Noel Ahern (Dublin North West, Fianna Fail)
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It is appalling that certain people gave a certain interpretation of the matter last November. No matter how many times we try to tell Deputy Durkan——
Bernard Durkan (Kildare North, Fine Gael)
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I will bring the details to the attention of the Minister tomorrow.
Noel Ahern (Dublin North West, Fianna Fail)
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Will the Deputy do us a favour? Will he listen, for a change?
Bernard Durkan (Kildare North, Fine Gael)
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We have been listening to the Minister of State for too long.
Noel Ahern (Dublin North West, Fianna Fail)
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The detail of the——
Bernard Durkan (Kildare North, Fine Gael)
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That is the problem.
Noel Ahern (Dublin North West, Fianna Fail)
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The Deputy has never listened in his life, that is his problem.
John Cregan (Limerick West, Fianna Fail)
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The Deputy should listen.
Bernard Durkan (Kildare North, Fine Gael)
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I pity the poor people out there who are listening to the Minister of State.
John Cregan (Limerick West, Fianna Fail)
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The Minister of State is speaking.
Noel Ahern (Dublin North West, Fianna Fail)
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I suggest that Deputy O'Sullivan's constituents should go to Limerick City Council to have their needs assessed. When their needs have been assessed and their housing needs have been accepted by the local authority, they can get rent allowance. There is no difficulty.
Tommy Broughan (Dublin North East, Labour)
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Some health boards are not doing that.
Noel Ahern (Dublin North West, Fianna Fail)
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There was a doubt last November, at the beginning. The regulations, which were issued by the Minister, are in place. There is no doubt about them. There may have been some confusion before the regulations were issued, but they are working well.
Bernard Durkan (Kildare North, Fine Gael)
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The confusion is still there.
Jan O'Sullivan (Limerick East, Labour)
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We will come back to the Minister of State if the changes are not made.
Noel Ahern (Dublin North West, Fianna Fail)
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A working group, chaired by the Department of the Taoiseach and involving the social partners, has been established to facilitate engagement with the social partners about monitoring the operation of the changes made by the Minister for Social and Family Affairs. It is not my job to explain what the Minister, Deputy Coughlan, was doing, but we should be honest by admitting that rent allowance increased by over 30% last year.
Noel Ahern (Dublin North West, Fianna Fail)
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Rents in the private sector were decreasing. It is obvious that she had to make a change. Approximately €250 million was spent on rent allowance in 2002, but that figure increased to €330 million last year.
Bernard Durkan (Kildare North, Fine Gael)
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There was more of them.
Noel Ahern (Dublin North West, Fianna Fail)
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However, we are being told left, right and centre that rents came down.
Bernard Durkan (Kildare North, Fine Gael)
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There are no houses.
John Cregan (Limerick West, Fianna Fail)
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There were record housing levels last year.
Noel Ahern (Dublin North West, Fianna Fail)
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——that pressure on rents has been relaxed in the past two or three years because of the supply that has been provided. Rents have been falling in all sectors other than the rent allowance sector.
John Cregan (Limerick West, Fianna Fail)
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It was a convenience.
Noel Ahern (Dublin North West, Fianna Fail)
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I am surprised by the behaviour of the Labour Party, which is supposed to have a social conscience.
John Cregan (Limerick West, Fianna Fail)
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It was a convenience.
Noel Ahern (Dublin North West, Fianna Fail)
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It is not normally on the side of the landlords.
Noel Ahern (Dublin North West, Fianna Fail)
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Labour Party Members should be careful to make sure they know whose argument they are fighting.
Bernard Durkan (Kildare North, Fine Gael)
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Everyone is on the wrong side of the Minister of State.
Tommy Broughan (Dublin North East, Labour)
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We are looking for houses.
Noel Ahern (Dublin North West, Fianna Fail)
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The Labour Party has also suggested the introduction of a housing benefit. The introduction of any benefit is primarily a matter for the Minister for Social and Family Affairs. The Minister indicated in the House that she has no plans to introduce a housing benefit. She said that any further changes in the qualification criteria for receipt of rent supplement will be considered as part of the review of the supplementary welfare allowance scheme, which is under way. I am glad to endorse this approach from a housing policy perspective. The housing benefit approach has been shown in other countries to have many negative effects, including high-cost rent inflation, increased dependency, inadequate housing supply and administrative difficulties such as complexity, cost, delay and fraud.
The Government remains committed to tackling homelessness. The continued implementation of its integrated and preventative homeless strategies remains a priority. All the service providers admit that we have made significant progress since the launch of the homeless strategy in 2000. A wide range of accommodation, such as emergency hostel accommodation, transitional accommodation and long-term accommodation facilities, has been provided in various locations across the country as part of the local homeless action plans. Our problem is not the provision of emergency accommodation because we have plenty of that. There are beds for those who want them and buses are available to collect rough sleepers.
Tommy Broughan (Dublin North East, Labour)
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The problem is that there is no permanent accommodation.
Noel Ahern (Dublin North West, Fianna Fail)
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We have to move people on from emergency accommodation to transitional accommodation and then to standard housing.
Tommy Broughan (Dublin North East, Labour)
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There are not enough apartments and houses to do that.
Noel Ahern (Dublin North West, Fianna Fail)
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Many people have——
Tommy Broughan (Dublin North East, Labour)
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They have been waiting for years.
Noel Ahern (Dublin North West, Fianna Fail)
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Contrary to the figures that were thrown at me yesterday, we know that Dublin City Council housed more than 100 single homeless people last year. More than 200 people were removed from the homeless list altogether.
Tommy Broughan (Dublin North East, Labour)
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They had been waiting for four or five years.
John Cregan (Limerick West, Fianna Fail)
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They were still housed.
Noel Ahern (Dublin North West, Fianna Fail)
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Good progress is being made. Deputy Broughan is aware that it is not the case that everybody who is in emergency accommodation is ready for independent living.
Noel Ahern (Dublin North West, Fianna Fail)
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Some of them are. If people are housed in transitional accommodation for a few months, the service providers can ascertain who is ready for independent living and who needs a level of sheltered accommodation. The service providers recognise that substantial progress has been made.
Tommy Broughan (Dublin North East, Labour)
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There is nothing for single people.
Noel Ahern (Dublin North West, Fianna Fail)
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If we can maintain the current level of funding for another couple of years, we will get there.
Tommy Broughan (Dublin North East, Labour)
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We will get there with the next Government.
Noel Ahern (Dublin North West, Fianna Fail)
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I ask the Deputies to be reasonable and to recognise the progress that has been made.
Bernard Durkan (Kildare North, Fine Gael)
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We will get there in the next century.
Noel Ahern (Dublin North West, Fianna Fail)
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We are spending €51 million this year compared to €12.5 million five years ago. An enormous amount of money has been allocated. A total of €190 million has been provided for homeless people in the past five years.
Séamus Pattison (Carlow-Kilkenny, Labour)
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The Deputy has one minute remaining.
Bernard Durkan (Kildare North, Fine Gael)
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It is one minute to midnight.
Noel Ahern (Dublin North West, Fianna Fail)
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The Government is delivering on housing.
Tommy Broughan (Dublin North East, Labour)
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It is time for the Minister of State to declare a crisis in housing.
Noel Ahern (Dublin North West, Fianna Fail)
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It has responded to the numerous and diverse challenges with a credible and wide-ranging set of measures. It has provided unparalleled levels of funding and its continued vigilance is paying off.
Tommy Broughan (Dublin North East, Labour)
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The Minister of State is too quiet in the Cabinet.
Noel Ahern (Dublin North West, Fianna Fail)
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I am not there yet.
Noel Ahern (Dublin North West, Fianna Fail)
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The overall focus of the Sustaining Progress commitment to provide social and affordable accommodation——
Tommy Broughan (Dublin North East, Labour)
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The Minister of State should stand up to the Minister, Deputy McCreevy.
Noel Ahern (Dublin North West, Fianna Fail)
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——is to review the effectiveness of programmes designed to assist low income groups. We are making substantial progress. This year's budget is €1.88 billion.
Tommy Broughan (Dublin North East, Labour)
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It is far too little and far too late.
Noel Ahern (Dublin North West, Fianna Fail)
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The needs of the 13,000 persons on the housing waiting list will be met. We hope to achieve the overall house production level of 68,000 homes and to maintain the production rate of 17 units per 1,000 people. If we can sustain this level of supply for a couple of years, we will have broken the back of the demand that exists.
Bernard Durkan (Kildare North, Fine Gael)
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That will only happen in the Minister of State's dreams.
Noel Ahern (Dublin North West, Fianna Fail)
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Some logical points were made earlier. The pressure on housing supplies is one of the negative side-effects of seven or eight years of economic boom.
Tommy Broughan (Dublin North East, Labour)
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What about the all-party committee?
Noel Ahern (Dublin North West, Fianna Fail)
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There has been pressure, but we are getting there. The Government's policy is based on increasing supply. If we can maintain the current level of supply, the pressure on the market will ease.
Bernard Durkan (Kildare North, Fine Gael)
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There is not much time available to me tonight, unfortunately.
Bernard Durkan (Kildare North, Fine Gael)
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It is sad that is the case.
Bernard Durkan (Kildare North, Fine Gael)
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The Government has failed the young people of Ireland.
Noel Ahern (Dublin North West, Fianna Fail)
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At least young people are in this country.
Bernard Durkan (Kildare North, Fine Gael)
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That failure can be seen at its most spectacular in the housing area.
Noel Ahern (Dublin North West, Fianna Fail)
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If the Deputy's party was in government, they would be abroad.
Bernard Durkan (Kildare North, Fine Gael)
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The Minister of State has told what he believes to be the truth.
Noel Ahern (Dublin North West, Fianna Fail)
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They would be on the boat.
Bernard Durkan (Kildare North, Fine Gael)
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From whom has the Minister of State received his information? Does he go out on the ground himself? I thought he was a decent guy. I asked him to do something about this matter when I brought it to his attention at least four years ago and I repeated that call several times. I was told at first that there was no housing crisis and then I was told that something would be done about it after the Government had studied the matter. I am sorry to say that if it takes the Government as long to study all matters as it has taken the Minister of State to study our housing problems, this country is in for a rude awakening sooner rather than later.
John Cregan (Limerick West, Fianna Fail)
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We do not have a magic wand.
Bernard Durkan (Kildare North, Fine Gael)
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I always thought that the Minister of State was a nice guy and a caring and considerate person, but it is obvious that he was bound, gagged and manacled by his ministerial colleagues, who are pulling rank every other day. They want to keep house prices high because the Government is getting a big take from housing. It receives 40% of the cost of every house in this country.
Noel Ahern (Dublin North West, Fianna Fail)
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Deputy Durkan should not be talking nonsense.
Bernard Durkan (Kildare North, Fine Gael)
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The Minister of State omitted to mention that in his speech, but he knows full well that it is the case. The Government also decided to pile on a levy this year to ensure that it can clobber any first-time buyer fortunate enough to be able to put down a deposit on a house.
Noel Treacy (Galway East, Fianna Fail)
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What is the Deputy talking about?
Bernard Durkan (Kildare North, Fine Gael)
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If the Government thinks for one moment that the people are not aware of what it is doing, it will find out sooner rather than later that it is wrong.
Bernard Durkan (Kildare North, Fine Gael)
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I would love to continue, but time does not allow me to do what needs to be done to do justice to this issue.