Denis Naughten (Longford-Roscommon, Fine Gael)
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Question 40: To ask the Minister for Transport when he intends to update the Road Transport Act 1932; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [12728/04]

Séamus Brennan (Dublin South, Fianna Fail)
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I plan to enact legislation during 2004 which will repeal the Road Transport Act 1932 and put in place reformed arrangements for the procurement and market regulation of public transport services.

I set out my policy proposals for public transport reform in statements to the public transport partnership forum in November 2002 and the Joint Committee on Transport in June 2003. As I have stated previously it is now my intention to establish an independent procurement and regulatory body for public transport which will operate on a national basis. While recent public discussion on public transport reform has focused almost exclusively on organisational issues and provider concerns, I remain convinced of the need for significant reform in the interests of the public transport user and the taxpayer.

With regard to a new regulatory regime for bus services in the Dublin area, I remain firmly of the view, supported by a number of professional studies and experience in other countries, that franchising is the most effective means of achieving genuine market opening to new entrants. I also remain open to additional suggestions provided they are directed at achieving the objective of genuine market opening to new entrants. Likewise, I am open to reasonable proposals relating to the pace of the introduction of competition so long as this objective is achieved in an acceptable time frame. I am currently finalising my proposals with regard to bus services outside Dublin.

Talks between officials from my Department and the CIE trade unions on public transport reform are to recommence on 12 May. An intensive schedule of meetings over five full days has been arranged by the independent Chair appointed by the Labour Relations Commission. It remains my intention to proceed with legislation on public transport reform in 2004.

Denis Naughten (Longford-Roscommon, Fine Gael)
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I wish to ask the Minister two separate specific questions. The first question is about the timetable for the legislation. This time two years ago in An Agreed Programme for Government, the Government promised reform of this legislation. The Minister has made numerous announcements to this effect since he came to office. The House is now being informed that it will happen during 2004. I ask the Minister to be more specific about the timetable.

In light of the ongoing delay, is the Minister concerned, as are his officials, regarding the issuing of grandfather rights to private operators under the current legislation? More than 130 licences were issued in 2003. These people could have grandfather rights which would give them an additional financial asset over and above licences issued under a new regulatory regime. There is no mechanism either to charge the commercial value or even the cost of those licences. Will the Minister agree that legislation is urgently required?

Séamus Brennan (Dublin South, Fianna Fail)
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I agree that the legislation is urgently required but it will not be taken in this session.

Denis Naughten (Longford-Roscommon, Fine Gael)
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I figured that out.

Séamus Brennan (Dublin South, Fianna Fail)
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I cannot see that the legislation can be brought before the House within the next couple of weeks that remain to the end of June. I am determined that it will be put through in the course of 2004.

The Deputy will be aware that I have been very consistent in the policy on grandfather rights. There have been a number of national stoppages. I have been asked by the Deputies opposite to engage in discussions. I have engaged in those discussions and another round is taking place. We have had seven meetings since January with the trade unions on this subject. Another five days of intensive talks are now about to commence. It was my response to the request to engage in these discussions which added the extra time but I believe it will be worth it in the end.

I take the point being made by the Deputy on grandfather rights. I will endeavour in the legislation to ensure that no rights are established before the legislation which would give people automatic rights after the legislation is enacted. When the regulator is conducting contests for routes or packages of routes, he can conduct an open contest irrespective of who has the route.

Denis Naughten (Longford-Roscommon, Fine Gael)
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Will the Minister agree that if he had commenced the discussions when he came into office, we would not now be in this situation? My understanding and that of the Minister's Department as a result of legal advice is that there will be grandfather rights involved. What impact will this have on the franchising of routes? Has the Department any estimate of the financial loss to the State? The licences granted to Aircoach were worth €15 million. This is already a significant loss to the State and there could be more significant losses in the future.

Séamus Brennan (Dublin South, Fianna Fail)
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On the one hand the Deputy regrets that legislation is not in place in order to open up the market and that is my wish also. On the other hand he is worrying about the loss of financial income to the State by virtue of the fact that it has not happened yet. I am not sure where the Deputy is coming from on this matter.

Denis Naughten (Longford-Roscommon, Fine Gael)
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Nobody knows where the Minister is coming from.

Séamus Brennan (Dublin South, Fianna Fail)
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I have been very clear in what I want to do. I am seeking to have the legislation completed and put before the House.