Dáil debates
Tuesday, 30 March 2004
Order of Business.
5:00 pm
Bertie Ahern (Dublin Central, Fianna Fail)
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The Order of Business today shall be as follows: No. 12, statements on European Council, Brussels; and No. 1, Sea Pollution (Miscellaneous Provisions) Bill 2003 [Seanad] â Second Stage. It is proposed, notwithstanding anything in Standing Orders, that the proceedings on No. 12 shall, if not previously concluded, be brought to a conclusion after 80 minutes and the following arrangements shall apply: the statements shall, if not previously concluded, be brought to a conclusion after 60 minutes and the statements of the Taoiseach and the main spokespersons from the Fine Gael Party, the Labour Party and the Technical Group shall be called upon in that order and shall not exceed 15 minutes in each case. Members may share time. Immediately following the statements, the Taoiseach shall take questions for a period not exceeding 20 minutes. Private Members' business shall be No. 33, Motion re: Confidence in the Minister for the Environment, Heritage and Local Government.
Rory O'Hanlon (Cavan-Monaghan, Ceann Comhairle)
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There is one proposal to put to the House. Is the proposal for dealing with No. 12, Statements on European Council, agreed ?
Caoimhghín Ó Caoláin (Cavan-Monaghan, Sinn Fein)
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Allowing only one hour with 20 minutes of questions on such an important issue is insufficient. Our party spokesperson will have only five minutes' participation on this critical issue, which is moreover being considered during the Irish Presidency of the European Union. It is a matter of grave concern that we have not had a proper debate in the House on the proposed constitutional treaty for the European Union, because it affects our sovereignty and democracy in this State and in the European Union. The Government refused to tell us its position on the negotiations on the constitutional treaty. It refuses to tell us if it has agreed the defence clauses, which we contend violate Irish neutrality. For these reasons we cannot agree to such a short inadequate opportunity for statements, and a limited question and answer session to follow. Members need a substantive opportunity to address this major proposition.
John Gormley (Dublin South East, Green Party)
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The constitutional treaty, or new EU constitution as it has become known, is extremely important. It is historic. On this side of the House we have complimented the Government for its handling of the treaty and have wished it well in the negotiations. It seems a breakthrough has been made. However, we have not had the required debate on the matter in the House. The Taoiseach told us there are 20 outstanding issues. We are not clear what they are, though we can guess what some of them are. For that reason it is wrong that certain parties on this side of the House are limited in what they can say, and in the number of questions we can ask. We oppose the proposal.
The Dail Divided:
For the motion: 71 (Bertie Ahern, Dermot Ahern, Noel Ahern, Barry Andrews, Seán Ardagh, Niall Blaney, Johnny Brady, Martin Brady, Séamus Brennan, Joe Callanan, Ivor Callely, Pat Carey, John Carty, Donie Cassidy, Beverley Flynn, Mary Coughlan, John Cregan, Martin Cullen, John Curran, Noel Davern, Síle de Valera, Noel Dempsey, Tony Dempsey, John Dennehy, Jimmy Devins, John Ellis, Frank Fahey, Michael Finneran, Dermot Fitzpatrick, Seán Fleming, Jim Glennon, Noel Grealish, Mary Hanafin, Seán Haughey, Jackie Healy-Rae, Máire Hoctor, Cecilia Keaveney, Billy Kelleher, Peter Kelly, Tony Killeen, Séamus Kirk, Tom Kitt, Brian Lenihan Jnr, Conor Lenihan, Jim McDaid, Tom McEllistrim, John McGuinness, Micheál Martin, Donal Moynihan, Michael Moynihan, Michael Mulcahy, Éamon Ó Cuív, Seán Ó Fearghaíl, Charlie O'Connor, John O'Donoghue, Denis O'Donovan, Batt O'Keeffe, Ned O'Keeffe, Fiona O'Malley, Tim O'Malley, Tom Parlon, Peter Power, Seán Power, Eoin Ryan, Mae Sexton, Brendan Smith, Michael Smith, Noel Treacy, Dan Wallace, Mary Wallace, G V Wright)
Against the motion: 11 (Dan Boyle, Paudge Connolly, Martin Ferris, John Gormley, Séamus Healy, Finian McGrath, Arthur Morgan, Caoimhghín Ó Caoláin, Aengus Ó Snodaigh, Eamon Ryan, Liam Twomey)
Tellers: Tá, Deputies Hanafin and Kelleher; Níl, Deputies Boyle and Ó Snodaigh.
Question declared carried.
Enda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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I thank the Taoiseach for his letter on the referendum on Irish citizenship that I received today. Deputy Rabbitte already raised the matter of the Taoiseach having informed the House that there were no proposals for a referendum on this issue. However, in Marchââ
Rory O'Hanlon (Cavan-Monaghan, Ceann Comhairle)
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Does the Deputy have a question?
Bernard Allen (Cork North Central, Fine Gael)
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Some order would help, a Cheann Comhairle, so that the Deputy may be heard.
Enda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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The Government, when it made its decision, authorised the Minister for Justice, Equality and Law Reform, Deputy McDowell, to consult party leaders on this sensitive matter. There has been no consultation with me by the Minister on this matter except to inform me on the corridor that the machines will cater for the referendum. I do not know if the Minister was speaking about the machines for the 11 June elections or some future date. That is not the way to do business on such a sensitive and serious matter as this. I support having this problem resolvedââ
Rory O'Hanlon (Cavan-Monaghan, Ceann Comhairle)
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The Deputy has made his point.
Enda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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I have not finished my point, a Cheann Comhairle. When Deputy Gay Mitchell submitted a parliamentary question seeking information on the number of non-national births in the State, he was informed that it was not available, yet the Taoiseach and the Minister for Justice, Equality and Law Reform have it at their disposal. This is not the way to do business.
In his letter to me today, the Taoiseach stated that the Minister for Justice, Equality and Law Reform will shortly bring to the House specific proposals on the reconciliation between Articles 2 and 9 of the Constitution. Will this be before Easter? Will the Taoiseach give a specific date for this? The Taoiseach also stated in his letter that he did not believe that the All-Party Committee on the Constitution was an appropriate forum for this matter. From reading between the lines, is it the Taoiseach's intention to hold the referendum on 11 June? If that is the case, will he say so and will the Government hold proper consultations with Opposition leaders about this sensitive issue which I want resolved and one in which I would be pleased to play a constructive and positive role?
Bertie Ahern (Dublin Central, Fianna Fail)
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No decision has been made on this issue yet and, therefore, no referendum will be fixed until then. It was to be discussed at Cabinet today, but the Minister for Justice, Equality and Law Reform was on EU Presidency business. It will be discussed next week. The Minister is available but I understood that he discussed the matter with the Opposition spokespersons. I will relay Deputy Kenny's comments to him. Until there is agreement on the measures, it will not be decided whether the referendum will be held on 11 June. That decision will be made next week too. I will refer Deputy Kenny's comments on consultation to the Minister for Justice, Equality and Law Reform.
Pat Rabbitte (Dublin South West, Labour)
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Does the Taoiseach not know well that the Minister sought to discuss this matter with the Opposition spokespersons at the same time as he issued a statement to the press announcing the referendum? I do not know what the pretence about mystery is because that was the discussion that took place. I do not know why we must listen to people hedging by saying the Taoiseach does not know what the Minister did. I suspect that the Taoiseach knows well what the Minister is doing and the Minister knows why the Taoiseach wants him to do it.
Is it not the case that the Government Whip has instructed that the referendum Bill be taken in the week after Easter? Will the Taoiseach deny that? Is it the case that the legislation will be brought to the House in time for a poll on 11 June in accordance with the advice of the Taoiseach's American guru? Why was the question of land, for example, side-tracked to a constitutional committee for two and a half years but the Government has suddenly discovered this issue in advance of the local and European elections?
Bertie Ahern (Dublin Central, Fianna Fail)
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I will repeat myself. Deputy Kenny stated that there has been no consultation with him. All I said is that I understand that there has been consultation with the spokespersons.
Joe Costello (Dublin Central, Labour)
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There was not very much consultation.
Bertie Ahern (Dublin Central, Fianna Fail)
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There is no going around the place on the issue. I will point that out to the Minister.
Donie Cassidy (Westmeath, Fianna Fail)
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Deputy Costello is not in the Seanad now.
Bertie Ahern (Dublin Central, Fianna Fail)
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The Government is considering the constitutional Bill, the final proposal and the date. The date on which the Bill will be taken will not be agreed until the Government makes a decision on these matters.
Pat Rabbitte (Dublin South West, Labour)
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Will the Bill be discussed in the week after Easter? That is the question.
Bertie Ahern (Dublin Central, Fianna Fail)
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We must decide next week if we agree on a Bill. At this stage, the answer to the Deputy's question is "No" because we have not agreed on it.
Pat Rabbitte (Dublin South West, Labour)
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How come I know the answer?
Billy Kelleher (Cork North Central, Fianna Fail)
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Because you know everything.
Bertie Ahern (Dublin Central, Fianna Fail)
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We have not agreed it; that is the point.
Pat Rabbitte (Dublin South West, Labour)
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We will see, Billy. I will lay you a wager.
Bertie Ahern (Dublin Central, Fianna Fail)
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If we must make more time for legislation, we will do so. We must make those decisions first.
Pat Rabbitte (Dublin South West, Labour)
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It will create the same circumstances as those that existed in Deputy Kelleher's constituency at the previous general election.
Rory O'Hanlon (Cavan-Monaghan, Ceann Comhairle)
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I call Deputy Gormley.
Pat Rabbitte (Dublin South West, Labour)
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There will be Deputy Noel O'Flynns all over the place and Deputy Kelleher knows that. If the Taoiseach thinks that is a good idea, I am afraid I do not agree with him.
Rory O'Hanlon (Cavan-Monaghan, Ceann Comhairle)
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Deputy Rabbitte should allow Deputy Gormley, who has been called and is in order, to speak.
John Gormley (Dublin South East, Green Party)
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Given that the Minister, Deputy Cullen, has spoken about the need to fast-track the construction of incinerators throughout the countryââ
John Gormley (Dublin South East, Green Party)
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ââincluding in my constituency of Dublin South-East, can I ask the Taoiseachââ
Martin Cullen (Waterford, Fianna Fail)
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This is more of the Green Party's zero nonsense.
Dan Boyle (Cork South Central, Green Party)
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The Minister's words were: "it will happen".
John Gormley (Dublin South East, Green Party)
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He said it will happen in Dublin South-East.
Martin Cullen (Waterford, Fianna Fail)
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The Green Party's zero policy will not work.
Brian Lenihan Jnr (Dublin West, Fianna Fail)
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It is a waste of space.
Rory O'Hanlon (Cavan-Monaghan, Ceann Comhairle)
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Allow Deputy Gormley toââ
John Gormley (Dublin South East, Green Party)
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The Minister was quoted as saying it.
Rory O'Hanlon (Cavan-Monaghan, Ceann Comhairle)
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ââask a question appropriate to the Order of Business.
John Gormley (Dublin South East, Green Party)
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It would be wonderful if I were allowed to speak without being interrupted. Can I ask about the strategic national infrastructure Bill? Will the Taoiseach confirm that the Bill is being supported by the Progressive Democrats? Will the Taoiseach inform the House where the Progressive Democrat Members are today?
Noel Treacy (Galway East, Fianna Fail)
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They are looking at sites.
Brendan Howlin (Wexford, Labour)
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They are looking for a candidate for the European election in Dublin.
Pat Rabbitte (Dublin South West, Labour)
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They are checking the advertisements to see if anyone has replied.
Rory O'Hanlon (Cavan-Monaghan, Ceann Comhairle)
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The Taoiseach, on the legislation.
Bertie Ahern (Dublin Central, Fianna Fail)
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The Bill is being drafted.
Brendan Howlin (Wexford, Labour)
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They are on Grafton Street looking for a candidate.
John O'Donoghue (Kerry South, Fianna Fail)
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It is a bit like waiting for Godot.
Seymour Crawford (Cavan-Monaghan, Fine Gael)
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I understand that a dormant accounts (amendment) Bill is to be brought to the House to deal with the sizeable increase in moneys available from the dormant accounts fund. I also understand that a separate Bill will be brought forward to deal with dormant insurance accounts. Will the moneys in question be used simply as a slush fund?
Rory O'Hanlon (Cavan-Monaghan, Ceann Comhairle)
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The Deputy's question is not in order.
Rory O'Hanlon (Cavan-Monaghan, Ceann Comhairle)
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He should table a question to the Minister.
Bernard Durkan (Kildare North, Fine Gael)
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He asked about a proposed Bill.
Rory O'Hanlon (Cavan-Monaghan, Ceann Comhairle)
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I call Deputy Stanton.
Denis Naughten (Longford-Roscommon, Fine Gael)
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He asked when we will see legislation.
Rory O'Hanlon (Cavan-Monaghan, Ceann Comhairle)
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The Deputy did not ask a question about Bills; he made a statement.
Bernard Durkan (Kildare North, Fine Gael)
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He asked a question about promised legislation
Rory O'Hanlon (Cavan-Monaghan, Ceann Comhairle)
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He did not ask a question.
Rory O'Hanlon (Cavan-Monaghan, Ceann Comhairle)
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He did not ask a question; he made a statement.
David Stanton (Cork East, Fine Gael)
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The Tánaiste informed me last week that it is not possible to say when the disability Bill will be taken in the House. What has happened to the Bill? Will the Taoiseach inform the House if anything has happened in the meantime to suggest when the Bill might be published?
Bertie Ahern (Dublin Central, Fianna Fail)
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Consultations are ongoing in respect of the strategic plans on the Bill. We are trying to complete it as soon as possible.
Eamon Gilmore (Dún Laoghaire, Labour)
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How long more must the 150,000 tenants in this country wait for legislation to protect their rights? Report Stage of the Residential Tenancies Bill 2003 has not been scheduled. Four years have passed since the report on the private rented sector was produced. When will Report Stage of the Bill be taken in the House? Will the Taoiseach assure the House that the Bill will not be guillotined?
Bertie Ahern (Dublin Central, Fianna Fail)
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I understand that we are ready to proceed with Report Stage of the Bill. It is a matter of scheduling adequate time for it.
Caoimhghín Ó Caoláin (Cavan-Monaghan, Sinn Fein)
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Given that there has been at least one recent instance of a young wheelchair-dependent child being unable to progress in primary education because of a lack of access to an upstairs room in the child's school, when will the disability Bill be brought to the House? Will the Taoiseach affirm that the Bill will be rights-based?
Rory O'Hanlon (Cavan-Monaghan, Ceann Comhairle)
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The Deputy's question has just been answered.
Caoimhghín Ó Caoláin (Cavan-Monaghan, Sinn Fein)
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Can the Taoiseach not answer the question?
Liz McManus (Wicklow, Labour)
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The Taoiseach has stated publicly that it is almost impossible to meet the requirements of the EU working time directive as it applies to junior hospital doctors. How does he intend to deal with the problem? The directive must be implemented by 1 August next. Does he intend to introduce legislation to deal with the issue?
Bertie Ahern (Dublin Central, Fianna Fail)
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Some useful work has been done at the relevant EU Council since I made the comment to which the Deputy referred. The Minister of State, Deputy Fahey, will answer any questions asked of him in that regard.
Dan Boyle (Cork South Central, Green Party)
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Has the Government considered the Law Reform Commission's report on the court poor box system, which suggested that the poor box be replaced by a court charity fund? Will the Government produce legislation on foot of the report? Will the legislation be produced by the Department of Justice, Equality and Law Reform or by the Department of Community, Rural and Gaeltacht Affairs? If it is produced by the latter Department, is there not a danger that the Minister, Deputy à CuÃv, willââ
Rory O'Hanlon (Cavan-Monaghan, Ceann Comhairle)
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The Deputy has made his point. Is legislation promised?
Dan Boyle (Cork South Central, Green Party)
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I have not finished my point.
John Gormley (Dublin South East, Green Party)
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He has not made his point.
Dan Boyle (Cork South Central, Green Party)
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The question of which Department introduces the Bill is an important one. Will the Minister, Deputy à CuÃv, who is already responsible for dormant accounts, also have responsibility for the new fund?
Rory O'Hanlon (Cavan-Monaghan, Ceann Comhairle)
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That does not arise.
John Gormley (Dublin South East, Green Party)
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It is important.
Bertie Ahern (Dublin Central, Fianna Fail)
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The dormant accounts (amendment) Bill and the charities Bill will be separate. The Deputy referred to the Law Reform Commission's report, which was published today.
Dan Boyle (Cork South Central, Green Party)
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I presume the Government has considered the report.
John Gormley (Dublin South East, Green Party)
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What will the Government do?
Pat Rabbitte (Dublin South West, Labour)
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There was a large meeting of workers at Shannon last night. The workers want to know whether the Taoiseach approved the proposals worked out between Phil Flynn and his programme manager at Dublin Airport. When will the Bill to break up Aer Rianta be published? Will the workers have an opportunity, in advance of the publication of the Bill, to examine the financial data they have been promised by the Taoiseach? It appears that the Progressive Democrats Party is providing the policies and Fianna Fáil is providing the votes. That is the view of the workers.
Rory O'Hanlon (Cavan-Monaghan, Ceann Comhairle)
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The last part of the Deputy's question might be more appropriate to the Second Stage debate on the Bill.
Bertie Ahern (Dublin Central, Fianna Fail)
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Legislation is due after Easter. I answered the first part of the Deputy's question when I said that information will be exchanged with the workers and the unions.
Séamus Healy (Tipperary South, Independent)
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With the permission of the Chair, I propose that the House send its congratulations to the former Ceann Comhairle, Mr. Seán Treacy, on the conferral on him of the freedom of the borough of Clonmel.
Bernard Durkan (Kildare North, Fine Gael)
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As the Taoiseach did not answer the question my colleague asked, can I ask him about the whereabouts of the dormant financial assets Bill and the Government's intentions in that regard? I would also like to ask about the building control Bill and the critical infrastructure Bill, which is very important in this House at all times.
John Gormley (Dublin South East, Green Party)
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A criminal infrastructure Bill would be just as important in some cases.
Bertie Ahern (Dublin Central, Fianna Fail)
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I have just answered a question about the infrastructure Bill. The dormant financial assets Bill will be brought forward next year and the building control Bill will be brought forward in mid-2004.
Joe Sherlock (Cork East, Labour)
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The Taoiseach was not present the last time I asked about S.I. No. 90 of 2004, which was introduced by the Minister for Health and Children. Does the statutory instrument replace the proposed health (amendment) Bill? What is the status of S.I. No. 90 of 2004?
Bertie Ahern (Dublin Central, Fianna Fail)
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A new health Bill will be brought forward. If the Deputy wants me to check S.I. No. 90 of 2004, I will do so.
Eamon Gilmore (Dún Laoghaire, Labour)
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The Taoiseach should check his notes.
Aengus Ó Snodaigh (Dublin South Central, Sinn Fein)
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The Minister for Justice, Equality and Law Reform is fast-tracking everything on the list except the immigration and residence Bill. When will this be published and when will it come before the House?
Bertie Ahern (Dublin Central, Fianna Fail)
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Work on the heads of the Bill is under way. This includes consideration of submissions received as part of a public consultation process on immigration and the International Organisation for Migration study of migration legislation practice.
Dan Neville (Limerick West, Fine Gael)
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In view of the number of people admitted to hospital with paracetamol poisoning and the number who die of this cause, when will the Irish Medicines Board (miscellaneous provisions) Bill, which will amend the Misuse of Drugs Act 1977, come before the House?
Bertie Ahern (Dublin Central, Fianna Fail)
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The Bill is due this year.
Brendan Howlin (Wexford, Labour)
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The Whistleblowers Protection Bill 1999 was replaced on the Dáil Order Paper having passed Second Stage, although the Taoiseach had previously indicated he would proceed with the Bill. What is the Government's intention for this legislation?
A question was asked about legislation dealing with Aer Rianta. What is the status of the Great Southern Hotels in this context? Will they be subject to separate legislation or will they be dealt with in the same legislation?
Bertie Ahern (Dublin Central, Fianna Fail)
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I am not sure about the second issue. As I recall, the shares of that company are held by Aer Rianta so I assume the matter will be dealt with in the same Bill. The company is a subsidiary of Aer Rianta.
Brendan Howlin (Wexford, Labour)
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Are the hotels to be sold off? What will happen to them?
Bertie Ahern (Dublin Central, Fianna Fail)
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There are no proposals to sell them off. The shares are held by Aer Rianta, which is a State company.
Brendan Howlin (Wexford, Labour)
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Which of the new companies will hold them?
Rory O'Hanlon (Cavan-Monaghan, Ceann Comhairle)
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We cannot have a debate on the issue. The Deputy should submit a question to the appropriate Minister.
Bertie Ahern (Dublin Central, Fianna Fail)
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That decision will have to be made. The shares must be given to one of the companies.
The Whistleblowers Protection Bill was introduced in 1999. Considerable drafting work was done with a view to advancing the legislation. On reflection, however, it was considered that a more focused approach would be to deal with this issue through the Protection of Persons Reporting Child Abuse Act 1998 and the Competition Acts. I have asked for a report on the proposals of the Department of Enterprise, Trade and Employment and I will reply to Deputy Howlin as soon as I receive that report.