Joe Neville (Kildare North, Fine Gael)

I must say I am very disappointed listening to what previous speakers have said and how they are characterising this. I think they are using it as an attempt to bring down an issue and to talk about it in a way that is not helpful and essentially disengages a vast number of the people who have a right to ask questions. Two weeks ago at the Committee of Public Accounts, we talked about the significant amount of money that is spent on IPAS.

There should be no issue with anybody asking questions about how State or taxpayers' money is spent, how centres or other places are run and who receives the money. We can all decry specific events like those that occurred in Drogheda and we can all say how horrified we are by what people take it upon themselves to do. Obviously, the worst thing is to attack the most vulnerable, and that is absolutely what happened there. However, to conflate the two issues in a way that only raises the temperature further is dishonest and very unfair on people who are trying to do their best by the State.

With regard to IPAS locations, we know how difficult it is for people who come to our country. They leave countries not because they are in a positive situation but because they want a better life. Ultimately, it is difficult for the State and us, as individuals, to talk about this because we have a history of emigration. This country has suffered from considerable emigration over the years. Significant numbers have left our shores for hundreds of years, and no one is more aware of it than ourselves. In the last century and this one, much of our economy was built on money received from those who went to America and their children who came after them, who still support the people here. We know how difficult it is and we sympathise instinctively with those who have to come here, but at the same time we have to address concerns where they arise. Vast numbers of people in this State have concerns about how their money is spent and who it is given to. We know that €1.2 billion was spent on IPAS centres last year. We also know that only a small number of third-party providers received most of that money. Some received up to €30 or €40 million. We need to ask questions about that.

What I am referring to covers all of the sector. Obviously, the IPAS system, in different locations and in different ways, has not worked. We need to continue to ask questions in this regard because, ultimately, as we were told by the Secretary General of the Department of justice, 80% of people who come to this country fail to secure residency. Deputy Nash questioned that number but that is the one that was stated to us. Other numbers have been issued since, but at the same time, the percentage given at the meeting of the Committee of Public Accounts last week was indeed 80%. Ultimately, if 80% of those who go through the process are not entitled to be here, we must question the system that allows it. We have a neighbour with which we share a border and many seem to be coming over it. In the past, people arriving at our airports were ripping up their passports. We have to stop that and question it, because if we do not we will not be serving the best interests not only of those who elect us but also others in the State who deserve our full support in many different ways. If people are arriving through the UK and have not sought asylum there, we must ask why. I do not want to use any term that might be misconstrued, but is this State seen as a place where they feel they might have a better chance of gaining asylum? If so, we must ask why it might be the case.

Ultimately, the Minister finds himself in a difficult situation. He was appointed to the role last year. The Department was restructured for a specific reason. Obviously, it was not working well enough previously. The Minister is trying to resolve some of these difficult issues. We need a system that works better and more quickly and that ultimately gets decisions made. If people are not entitled to be here, so be it. People will have to know that when they come here, they will have a limited opportunity, or otherwise, to stay here.

A vast number of people who have come to this country have contributed greatly and that is not to be questioned at all. We would all say that but we deserve transparency and accountability from the Departments that deal with this. I have seen significant issues in my area. The State has used places – such as Ryevale House near me – where there was no proper planning permission or water resources, and no proper education provided for the people. I would question the Department and seek to continue to ensure that we do so.

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