Roderic O'Gorman (Dublin West, Green Party) | Oireachtas source

I thank the Deputies for their kind remarks to me and their very detailed and considered contributions to this debate today and yesterday.

Childminding happens in Blanchardstown and all over Dublin. It is a phenomenon that happens all over the country. Childminders support so many families and children. Deputy Fitzmaurice is right that some of is because of the pressure on services. Some of it is because of the flexibility they provide. Some of it is just because some parents prefer that. Other parents do not want to primarily use centre-based childcare. Childminding is such an important part of the fabric of early learning and care in our country. One of the reasons we are bringing regulation, which must be appropriate regulation, into this sector is the parents who use childminders are not getting the same supports as parents who use centre-based childcare, namely, the NCS financial support. That is important because there are so many costs for parents with young families these days. We as a Government have done a lot to support those families who use centre-based care. We want to do more for those who are using childcare services as well.

Deputy Fitzmaurice spoke about listening. I have childminders in my constituency. I have met many of them on the doors over the years and I have met them specifically on the regulations that are undergoing public consultation over this summer. I think I met someone from the Deputy’s constituency. Deputy Naughten asked me to meet a constituent to talk about it. They reflected some of the concerns heard here. I have heard there is a distinction, maybe, between childminders who want appropriate regulation and some who want no regulation at all. I cannot meet the needs of that latter group. There has to be some regulation in this space, because the other part of the Bill we are bringing in is to deal with some very rare but very serious situations where the owners and managers of centre-based childcare acted in a way that shocked us all. We all saw that programme a number of years ago. We are bringing in regulation because we believe the State and Tusla must have the necessary mechanisms to deal with those situations. The vast majority of care undertaken by childminders, just like the vast majority of care undertaken in centre-based childcare, is loving, good and of a high standard. The State has be able to provide regulation for the really rare situations where the level of care is not good. Deputy Fitzmaurice is right that every parent will check and will know, but sometimes people are false in what they convey and a parent may not know what else is happening. That is why there has to be an element of regulation.

It was said yesterday we are asking providers to talk about the nutritional needs they meet for the children. If a childminder is looking after a two-year-old every day of the week, we need to know that kid is getting a decent meal. That is not excessive. We ask that of centre-based childcare and it is not excessive to ask that in a childminding situation. We know that in virtually all situations they are meeting that, but when we are dealing with children in a most vulnerable situation, 99% of the time is not okay because we must have assurance about all situations. I am aware of the concerns that have been raised. They have been raised with me directly. The regulations that were out for public consultation are draft regulations. I have been very clear that changes will be made on foot of the submissions we have received. Much of the discussion over the past two days has been about the content of the regulations. In fairness to Deputy Fitzmaurice, most of his focus was on the Bill itself. We are talking about the Bill, but I will address some of the regulation points as I go through my contribution

The purpose of the Bill is to ensure Tusla’s early years inspectorate has the appropriate enforcement powers and to remove that current exemption for regulation for Part 7 relating to childminders. There was a lot of discussion the number of childminders in the country but 53,000 is the number of children the census says are minded by childminders. From our engagement and consultation with childminders, most of them are looking after an average of four children. That suggests there are 13,000 to 14,000 childminders in the country. The figure 53,000 was used for the number of childminders yesterday and I think it refers to the number of children who are being looked after by childminders.

There was criticism of the public consultation on the regulations that took place over the summer. That was a 12-week consultation period that ran from February to May. It had more than 1,000 inputs from childminders, parents and other stakeholders. There were 52 focus groups, with at least one in every county. There was an online survey that childminders and parents who use their services could access. There were written submissions and a national stakeholders’ day when many of the organisations involved in this were brought together and engaged with my Department. A report on that whole process is being prepared. It will be published when it is finalised and it and the individual engagements I have had with childminders will influence the changes we make to the draft regulations. This is not our first engagement in the area of childminding. We have a national action plan for childminding. That was the result of two extensive consultation processes between 2016 and 2018 and another in 2019.

As to the consultation on the Bill before us, my Department undertook a public consultation between March and October of 2022 on the policies contained in it. Childminding Ireland is an organisation that represents a significant number of childminders. It has been involved in the process from the very beginning and its representatives, as well as practising childminders, are on the steering group for the national action plan. I have been very clear that I will meet Childminding Ireland in respect of the changing of the regulations from draft regulations into final regulations. The key point behind these regulations is that they are proportionate, appropriate to home and family settings and that they are sensitive to the unique features of childminding. Childminding is different to centre-based early learning and care and that is at the centre of what we are trying to do. There is a criticism the draft regulations are not distinct enough. I have heard that criticism and we will look to respond to that. A number of the issues raised yesterday do not fall within this Bill but are part of that discussion on the regulations. These include the fees set for registration, the information on childminders that will appear on the register, the notice period to inform Tusla of changes to the register, the possibility of Tusla interviewing someone applying to register as a childminder, the requirements regarding food, the maximum number of children, the supervision of children who are in the visitor’s home, the safety of the home and who needs to be Garda-vetted. They are all issues for the regulation rather than the Bill before us. However, they are valid questions so I will try to address a couple of those points that are relevant to the regulations.

On the issue of the sharing of personal data, my Department has engaged with the Data Protection Commissioner and continue to work with the Data Protection Commission to ensure that, as regards the draft childminding regulations, any requirement to process personal data is done in full compliance with GDPR requirements.

The issue of the registration fee has not been determined yet. The current registration fee for the small number of childminders who are registered is €40 per annum. I do not see any case to dramatically depart from that. I am not saying that will be it exactly, but that is the ballpark we are talking in - €40, or that sort of figure, per year.

As regards Garda vetting, the draft childminding regulations do not propose that visitors to the childminder's home should be vetted. The only reference to visitors in the draft regulation is the proposal that the childminder should have sight of the child she or he is caring for if the child is in the company of a visitor who does not normally reside in the house. That is not overly onerous, but that is something we will discuss.

The Bill makes it possible to regulate childminders but does not specify what those regulations should be. What the Bill does provide is the definition of a childminding service and an early years service, the removal of the exemption, the three-year transition period and amendments to other legislation to ensure that childminders are able to be Garda-vetted, fall within the scope of the Children First Act 2015 and, really importantly, are able to take part in the national childcare scheme, NCS, so the parents who use their service can get that benefit of lower childcare fees. That need to access the NCS was mentioned yesterday, and that is the central principle underpinning the proposals and underpinning what we are trying to do in the regulation of childminding, which is to allow parents benefit from those significant subsidies.

A number of Deputies asked about the transition period. A three-year transition period is set out in the Bill before registration becomes mandatory for childminders. The reason behind that duration is to try to again provide a reasonable balance between, on the one hand, achieving the benefits of regulation at the earliest opportunity - and that again is in particular allowing parents who use the services of childminders benefit from the NCS - and, on the other, providing childminders a sufficient period to understand and to prepare for this regulatory process. I recognise that this is a change. That is why we are giving people time to adjust to align themselves to a new system.

A couple of Deputies, including Deputy Ó Murchú, raised the issue of incentives and supports for childminders in this transition. We have an extensive programme of engagement with childminders proposed to support them through the registration process and to support them as regards sustainability. My Department has funded, through the city and county childcare committees, the appointment of a childminding development officer in every county in the country. We will also continue to explore financial supports that may be available for childminders. There is one taxation measure in place at the moment but, as regards the benefit to the parent, we should use the existing system, the NCS, because we know it works well and we know it directly reduces the cost of childcare for parents in a centre-based setting and can do so in a childminding setting. More recently, a number of changes have been made to the childminding development grant to make it more useful for childminders, especially those preparing for registration.

By registering as a childminder under the new system, childminders will also be able to apply to join core funding, which is the actual financial support that right now the State is providing to centre-based childcare. Childminders will be able to benefit, so the State will actually provide them with a new direct financial support in recognising the importance of different types of childcare arrangements in the country.

A number of questions were asked about Tusla's ability to deal with the increased numbers registering. Again, it is a three-year transition period. We know all childminders will not register immediately but we have provided significant additional funding to Tusla's early years inspectorate in 2024 to enable the expansion of its registration and inspection functions. An extra €3 million annually was specifically provided to the early years inspectorate to engage with childminders. That will support the appointment of 33 additional staff and help ensure that the inspectorate has the appropriate ICT systems in place to support the registration of childminders. I have full confidence that Tusla will be able to engage and successfully integrate childminders into the inspection system.

More broadly with regard to other provisions in the Bill, there has been support across this House for the introduction of the enhanced enforcement powers for Tusla. As I stated yesterday, the provisions strengthen the enforcement processes that are available to Tusla by putting on a statutory footing the relevant processes and procedures and ensuring they are fair and transparent. The Bill allows Tusla to address serious non-compliance in a timely and effective manner where there is an immediate and grave risk to the health, safety or welfare of children attending a service. The Bill makes clear the processes as regards the courts in the event of an appeal in respect of the use of any of these enforcement tools. The Bill also allows for appropriate powers as regards the inspections and the need to search premises or seize relevant documents where appropriate. The Bill provides the regulation-making powers to ensure that those running an early years service are fit and proper persons to carry out their role. It will also ensure that parents have access to appropriate information on the quality of early years services, including information on any enforcement action that took place.

Deputy Shortall referred to the separation of the issues contained in this Bill from wider legislative reform of the Child Care Act 1991 that my Department is implementing. I assure her and other Deputies that that Bill, which is much bigger legislation dealing with some quite complex issues around the principles of an obligation on all State agencies to co-operate with Tusla in the context of the care of children, is being worked on by my Department. I am hopeful that we can get it published and maybe debated here on Second Stage before we rise for the summer. However, as regards the particular issues in this Bill, if we are to enable childminders to start to register in the autumn, we needed to get this Bill legislated for before the end of this term. I emphasise that the larger Bill dealing with issues to do with children in care is almost complete and, as I said, I hope to see it in the House for Second Stage before the end of the term.

I thank Deputies for their engagement. I and my Department absolutely recognise the huge role that childminders play in this country. We are conscious of the concerns that are out there in terms of the changed system we are looking to bring about. I believe that an element of regulation in this regard is important but it has to be appropriate and proportionate. I have heard the concerns that childminders have about the draft regulations, and those concerns will be listened to. I cannot say every single concern or every single issue raised will be changed but the final draft of the regulation will reflect the engagement and will reflect a meaningful response to the concerns that have been raised during this process.

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