Ruairi Ó Murchú (Louth, Sinn Fein) | Oireachtas source

What we see in the Bill is the laying down of the necessary legislative framework. We are speaking about the export of items that can be used for civil or military purposes and for the control of the provision of brokering services and technical assistance and of the transit of those items. We all have big worries about the sale of weapons. We are especially worried about weapons of mass destruction. We all know the history, which is not so recent anymore, of flawed intelligence.

There has been much talk about several conflict areas that have been absolutely ravaged. We need to provide a framework and ensure we have due diligence and proper administration through having lists of what we need to ensure we do not add fire to the flames, for want of a better term. Recently, we and others had need of humanitarian intervention to get some of our citizens out of Sudan. We know what has been happening in Syria, Yemen, Sudan and Ukraine. There is no doubt about what the Palestinian people have been going through for many years. We are coming to the 75th anniversary of the Nakba.

I accept we will have to be able to deal sensibly with dual-use items. Anybody involved years ago in trying to get cryptographic materials or resources from the United States knows they were generally considered in the same bracket as munitions. There are engineering and gauging materials that may use lasers, sensors and infra-red. They can fall within these brackets. We need to allow a free flow for our SMEs, large corporations and those who require these items. This is necessary.

As was said by my colleague Deputy O'Reilly, we all want us to have these rules and lists. Of course, we would like to see a decent amount of over-and-back and dialogue with the Opposition of the day in order that everything is transparent and above board. We should make sure we deal with those trying to contravene these rules in any way, shape or form. As in all circumstances and all regulatory set-ups, this will not work unless we have the resources for enforcement, unless we ensure we have the lists and know who is selling, what they are meant to be selling, and unless we make sure we can discover that no one is brokering, selling, trading or exporting - call it what you will - items that could be used to breach of human rights or, in some cases, for the murderous acts of regimes around the world.

A very important point made was that we need to ensure we follow this due diligence and do not allow selling to third-party countries. There is much talk about European countries that have delivered directly to Saudi Arabia and the United Arab Emirates. Weapons that have been given to these countries have found their way into Yemen. Many thousands of people are dead based on those weapons being introduced into what is an utterly cruel and inhumane war.

No matter the conversation we have in this House, and sometimes among the great and the good, the Irish people love the idea of Ireland being a fair player on the international scene and being utterly committed to military neutrality and military non-alignment. This is not to say we do not call out oppression or involve ourselves from a humanitarian point of view and provide any other help we can where people face oppression. While we welcome the solidarity throughout Europe and beyond with regard to Ukraine, it is fair to say the west, Europe and many countries that are sometimes qualified as our allies have not necessarily been as forthright about other conflict zones.

Next week my party will deal with a Bill on divestment. This will deal with the unsavoury position that the Ireland Strategic Investment Fund, ISIF, is a shareholder in nine companies involved in illegal settlements in Palestine. We all realise the great wrong that has been done and continues to be done, even in recent days, to the Palestinian people. We know the Irish people have been on the side of the Palestinian people. I do not think it is particularly great for us that, through ISIF, which is a State entity, we are shareholders in what are internationally criminal actions by a right-wing Israeli regime. I would like to think we would have support across the House for making it illegal for ISIF to invest in and be a shareholder in companies involved in something that is utterly reprehensible. We are approaching 15 May, which is the 75th anniversary of the Nakba and the great catastrophe of what was forced upon many Palestinian people in 1948. Many of them have not been able to make that journey back to what was their homeland. We all know the issues, whether we are speaking about the West Bank or what we can only describe as the prison that is the Gaza Strip.

To return to the Bill we are speaking about, regarding any conflict zone I have mentioned or any other conflict zone, we need to ensure Irish companies and companies operating out of here do not fan the flames of what are brutal attacks on human rights and, beyond that, murderous campaigns by particular regimes. It is not all right with the Irish people and I do not think it is all right with many of us here. We need to ensure we have the means to carry out due diligence in order t hat we can have transparency. We need to provide protections to SMEs and companies that require the goods, but we must ensure Ireland does not fan flames in places where we need to be doing our utmost, as the international straight player we are seen to be, to make this a far more peaceful world.

The Minister of State will get support on this. We need to ensure on every Stage that we carry out our own due diligence and that the Minister of State engages properly with the Opposition in order that we get the best fit-for-purpose legislation and ensure Ireland continues to play its best part as a fair player on the international stage. We certainly do not want to be involved in anything, whether brokering, exporting or providing weapons or other items, that is connected with state-sponsored murder or brutal human rights violations. That would not be acceptable to the entirety of the Irish people.

I might stray slightly in order to ask a question that I was not able to ask earlier.

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