Leo Varadkar (Dublin West, Fine Gael) | Oireachtas source

I thank Deputies for their contributions. Deputy Tóibín referred to the term "transgenderism". I am not sure what that means. It is not an ideology nor a political philosophy. Trans people are people and they exist. I know people who are trans and perhaps the Deputy does too. They have always existed, although the may not have been acknowledged. When it comes to the education of children, parents and schools have a duty to inform them of the world around them as it is. Sooner or later, a young person will run into or meet somebody who is trans. Is it not better they have heard about it from their parents or teachers so they are prepared? It seems like common sense to me. It does not have to be a value judgment or to challenge anyone's religious beliefs or threaten their feelings. If you want to look out for children and prepare them for life and the world around them, you do not shield them from the reality of people and how they live their lives. You talk to them about it and you have to be ready to answers their questions. Kids are extraordinarily curious. If they see something or somebody they have not seen before, they will ask questions. You should be able to answer them. It should not be a case of using the phrase “Don’t say trans”. We have to have an approach that makes sense and teaches people about the reality of the world around them.

I hope that in this debate we all agree to try to avoid the kind of culture wars seen in other countries on the trans issue. The last thing the vast majority of people want in this country is a big row and fight between people who are woke and those who are anti-woke. People on both sides of that debate probably want that for reasons of self-promotion and other reasons, but I hope we can avoid that, keep it rational and keep it anchored in the centre ground.

On the industrial relations dispute involving tutors and the ETBs, I hope it is resolved soon. I will not get personally involved in industrial relations disputes. It is not that I am not interested, but I know if I get involved, every dispute will be escalated to the Taoiseach’s office and we will be expected to find the solution. That is not the way it should be done. It should be done through the Workplace Relations Commission, WRC, and the Labour Court, which is where these matters are resolved. I hope it can be resolved and I have sympathy for the tutors and the case they make.

On postgraduate students and workers, the Minister for Further and Higher Education, Research, Innovation and Science is working on this. He wants a better deal for PhD students. We are looking at what is done in comparable European countries and will see what we can do to match that or at least come closer to it. There is a wide spectrum as to what is done in different countries.

Comments were made with regard to children in east Cork who do not have appropriate school places for September. Deputy Murnane O'Connor referred to issues in Carlow and raised by Deputy Niamh Smyth referred to the need for assistive aids in Cavan. With their permission, I will come back to them in writing with a more detailed reply. I have some information here but maybe not the full answer. I would prefer to come back with a more comprehensive answer in the next week or two.

On the Education Act, I do not think a referendum is required to amend it. I would have thought that could be done by vote of the Dáil and Seanad, if appropriate. On the separation of church and State, we should not throw the baby out with the bathwater. Many schools are run by an archdiocese, or the archdiocese is a patron, including the primary school I went to and which my nephews have just left. Many schools have a Church of Ireland ethos, for example. Many schools are run by religious orders or religious trusts, and they run them well. In my constituency, where there is a proposal to remove some schools from the patronage of the archdiocese, the parents and teachers do not want that.

We should not force secularism on people who do not want it. If the school is run well, people like how it is run and the parents and teachers are happy, there should not be a change. There is room to recognise that much good work is done by religious bodies and they have a role to play in education and in other parts of society. They should not be consigned to the fringes or the basement, but it has to be an appropriate role that puts the public interest first.

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