Ruairi Ó Murchú (Louth, Sinn Fein) | Oireachtas source

In fairness, I acknowledge that we will be dealing with some amendments that will look at this further, namely technological questions. We all get the idea of the changed geopolitical set-up in the world. We are all aware that the State, in the context of security, requires the necessary powers to ensure that communication networks are protected.

However, we need some sort of clarity on how decisions and determinations will be made. There is much talk about information as being provided by intelligence services and of course we will be dealing with a large number of people who have skin in the game.

Beyond that, I am always afraid when the power lies solely with the Minister. For example, what if an action is chosen to be taken in respect of components that cannot be used in communications technology?. We are going to have to understand why this is the case. We are definitely going to need some reasoning behind it. I understand the Minister might not be able to offer all the information into the public domain but there has to be some form of accountability. We cannot just have a Minister making decisions on this willy-nilly.

There was often talk in Europe in recent years about strategic autonomy. The issue was thrown up by Covid as regards semi-conductors, that we did not have the pool and supply chain that was necessary to deliver. We are still dealing with that now. We all understand the need for strategic autonomy since the Russian invasion of Ukraine. We need to be able to maintain our communication devices and provide components in the wider world. I understand in respect of some of the companies that would fall under this - the high-risk vendor - that there are not many companies in Europe that can provide the alternative. They would probably need to do a significant amount of work to get themselves to that place from a technological point of view and in ensuring that they can provide the supply chain that would be necessary. Then we are getting into the wider question, if we are talking about taking communication components in and out. We are told that the core parts of some of these communication networks would not be using components provided by a high-risk vendor. That is information I have been given but I accept the Government will be carrying out an audit in respect of when they would be looking at carrying out something like this. We would need to make sure this could be done over a realistic period if it was necessary. I imagine if there is a high cost we would have to look at how the added costs would impact on those companies. I have no doubt there then would be talk of compensation and all the rest of it. I would like the Minister of State to go into some detail on that. I accept it might not be possible to provide all the details, even if a decision was made that a high-risk vendor would not be used and its components could not be used in our telecommunications infrastructure. However, I would like to think we would be provided with some information, that there would be some element of accountability and it would not be just a Minister making a decision. I would hope we would have some sight of the information leading to such a decision.

I assume there could be a fear about our control or a security issue in respect of our communication infrastructure. We all get the idea of how important communication infrastructure is. If some of us do not, we live in the age of hybrid attacks, cyber-warfare and almost cyber-to-physical attacks in this day and age. We know we need to look after our physical and digital infrastructure. We need to ensure it is protected in all ways. We need to make sure we can actually do this, that we do not leave ourselves in a logistical nightmare and that there is some element of oversight of what would be massive decisions. I doubt they would be made with just business consideration. I imagine there would be geopolitical concerns and relationships with countries of origin and so on that would be impacted by all of this. I would like to think decisions would be made on the basis of high-grade information that could be trusted, that was verified as much as possible and that we would be dealing with something logistically possible if this was necessary. A great many pieces need to fall into place first. The biggest of them is that if we made a determination tomorrow not to use one particular high-risk vendor, we might not be able to replace all those pieces. We should see if others are doing what we are doing. In the US they have made moves of a similar nature. We need to look at the means and process by which Government is going to make this determination. I do not like the idea that it is just the Minister who would have the power. We would need to see some decent protocols and there would need to be oversight by this House and by others in respect of the information that might lead to a possible call. What can we do from a technological point of view to enable ourselves to do this without impacting severely on our communications infrastructure? There are some big issues there and the Minister of State has to provide clarity to the House.

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