Seán Sherlock (Cork East, Labour) | Oireachtas source

We in Labour support the call of retained firefighters for a more sustainable and improved working model including decent pay, fixed incomes and structured, limited working hours that are consistent with the European working time directive. The current recruitment and retention crisis is a result of poor terms and conditions of employment and the constant failure to resource and fund adequately the retained fire service. Retained firefighters are on call 24 hours per day, 340 days per year.

Retainers are paid between €8,696 and €11,907 depending on experience. Salary and pay depends on the number of call-outs workers attend, however, meaning that many are forced to work second jobs or avail of social welfare payments to supplement their income. Furthermore, the lack of a fixed income makes it difficult for retained firefighters to get a mortgage. I have first-hand experience of that with constituents of mine. Retained firefighters are effectively locked out of social participation. When they are called to duty, they must be within five minutes of the fire station. This places severe restrictions on their ability to participate in everyday activities such as bringing their children to school, playing a football match, visiting relatives, attending social occasions or even going for a short walk. They are essentially under a form of house arrest while on call. It is unfathomable that we would expect these workers to put up with such conditions.

Poor pay and conditions have resulted in this crisis of retention and recruitment. Some sources indicate that as many as 60% of workers, and we heard this already tonight, are considering leaving the service in the very near future. Staff shortages among the fire service pose a serious threat to delivery and consequently to everyone's safety. If a crew responding to an emergency does not have sufficient numbers to enter a fire, we could be talking about a potential loss of life.

The last collective agreement made with retained firefighters was 23 years ago and the model has not kept pace with the changes to the socioeconomic and working landscape of the country. Retained firefighters are suffering economically, socially and mentally. It is time the Government introduced a more sustainable model that will address the recruitment and retention crisis and show these vital workers that it recognises their value and contribution to our safety as citizens by providing them with good pay and working conditions. They deserve nothing less. They are our friends, neighbours and family members. We know them; they live within our communities. They are always around and always on call. We must value them.

I echo the points of previous Deputies in respect of the fact that we have not been issued with a copy of the Minister's speech. It is important in debates like this for us to have a copy in order that we can parse the words of the Minister as he is speaking so we can respond on the hoof, as it were. I note that he said the review will be published shortly. He talked about changes in structures, culture and the delivery model. He spoke about a sequence of steps for a new model of delivery. To be fair to him, I have no doubt about the Minister's bona fides in seeking to arrive at a solution whereby everybody can be dealt with to the satisfaction of all. I suggest to the Minister that this is not just about statistics regarding fires. We know it is important to have an assessment of the other services that are delivered by retained firefighters in terms of call-outs. There needs to be a quantitative and qualitative analysis of the types of call-outs that take place in communities such as those I serve in which firefighters are called out for any manner and number of reasons. That must also be factored in when the Minister talks about a new model of delivery.

The bottom line for all of us is that in supporting the Sinn Féin motion, we acknowledge the role of firefighters within our communities. We have all done that collectively tonight but we must now move beyond the phase of empathy and sympathy for their position into a phase where we have some regard to concrete timelines for delivery. If I understand the Minister correctly, he is saying he is moving or seeks to move in that direction and that he will work with the interested parties to deliver a new model. Inherent within that, however, must be a recognition of the pay and conditions of workers. There needs to be a significant improvement on that. If I were to ask the Minister one thing tonight, it would be to give us some concrete timeline in respect of when he expects this process to be completed with a view to ensuring that everything he spoke about in his appreciation of the work retained firefighters do will be recognised and in that appreciation and recognition of their role, the fruits of their labour will be recognised and we will see real and concrete delivery of better pay and conditions as the primary aim of all of this. Will he please give us the timelines as to when that will be delivered?

The Minister spoke of the implications for both sides. I am not quite sure exactly what he means when he says that. I suppose he is talking about the workers and the employer. There is always a way of finding solutions, however. Ultimately, we want to ensure that we have a cohort of professional people and that it is an attractive profession to enter. The Minister said that is what he wants to achieve. Let us take him at his word. He might give us timelines, however. I also note the Minister made reference to gender equality in respect of recruitment and retention. We absolutely support him in that regard. At the end of the day, I was hopeful that we would have a set of timelines.

I would not accuse the Minister of this, to be fair, but very often we have aspirational and empathetic statements by Ministers coming before us. What the people in the Gallery and those watching outside really want is a clear indication of the timelines for delivery. That is the bottom line. When will this new model be rolled out? What is the timeline and the stage-gate process that has to be gone through to ensure we get over all the hurdles and challenges? We must ensure that in the communities that we all serve, there is a fit-for-purpose retained fire service in which morale is high and the staff are happy to do their jobs. We must continue to recognise the work they are doing and ensure the terms and conditions of employment are fit for purpose and are not anachronistic. We should not take them for granted. If I dare say it, I think they may be taken for granted within our communities. That is something that needs to be addressed seriously. The process the Minister talks about seems to be real, if it is chaired by Mr. Begg. However, we will have to see implementation of it.

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