Ruairi Ó Murchú (Louth, Sinn Fein) | Oireachtas source

The point Deputy Farrell made is the reason we are here and we are dealing with the whole issue of lobbying. In fairness, the Minister spoke about the necessity for openness and transparency. We have to do absolutely everything we can from the point of view of delivering that as it relates to politics, political operations and parliamentary operations for that matter. We often talk about the revolving door in politics, big business and lobbying in general. We have all known and dealt with certain instances where it has actually happened. I think there is a feeling out there that some people are more connected. I accept Deputy Farrell's point about looking across the water. There is chaos there currently, but we have also heard stories of people having absolute access to the top end of government. It seems to have ended in chaos. That is not even a strong enough word for it. We definitely do not need to be going in any way in that direction, so we have to provide whatever protections we can. European Commission Vice President Věra Jourová was actually in this House last week to attend meetings of the Joint Committee on Justice and the Joint Committee on European Union Affairs.

Steps need to be taken throughout the EU, particularly by countries that are wildly in breach of the rule of law, best practice and what we would perceive as common decency. There is, therefore, also a necessity for the rest of us to adhere to our obligations under the rule of law. One of the issues is that we need to deal with these particular issues because there is a revolving door. We need to make sure proper protections and mechanisms to ensure that we do not have that a free flow between politics, big business and lobbying.

Much of what is in this Bill is welcome. I do not think anyone will have a major difficulty with the registration of all members of business groups. I welcome the fact that there is a sanction for those who are in breach of the cooling-off period. I agree with Deputy Farrell, and the legislation she looked to introduce. An awful lot of the best practice we are told about talks about a two-year cooling-off period as more applicable. The fact is that we are talking about a €25,000 sanction, which is not nothing. On Committee Stage, we may have to deal with the fact that it may not be enough. We must examine that. It is a civil sanction and perhaps it would be better for it to be a criminal sanction. All of that needs to be talked out because we must ensure that even if we are late to the game, we put our best play in force from here on in. That is necessary. I support an approach whereby anyone found to be in breach of these rules would be prohibited from lobbying for at least two years.

We must ensure that where somebody is given a special exemption from the cooling-off period, that should be made public. That fits into the idea of openness and transparency. If such an exemption is allowed, that information should be freely available and open. If there is a reason for such an exemption, there is nothing to hide.

The privilege of access to the House for former Oireachtas Members has been mentioned. That could create difficulty if I were to lose my seat and my parking space in Dublin. I am sure the people of County Louth would find that difficult to get over. In fairness, there are serious issues in that regard. We accept that the job all of us do is privileged. The Minister has an even more privileged position. It is necessary that we provide protections for people. In some cases, there is a perception that some people do not have the same powers as others and lack that level of connectivity. In some cases, there is also the reality. Whatever we have to do to stop that must be done. That is what we are asking for. Most decent people want fairness. They want politicians to get on with politics. They have no difficulty, and none of us have, with businesses lobbying. They have a right to do that. However, we need to ensure it is all done within a fair system. There has been enormous unfairness to many people over many years so we need those protections. We also need to consider the review period and the length of time involved. It does not make sense.

I accept, as I do in respect of every piece of legislation and system that is put in place, there will always be a need for further amendments and review. I hope we will be able to work with the Minister to put a best practice system in place.

See this speech in context