Mairead Farrell (Galway West, Sinn Fein) | Oireachtas source

Gabhaim buíochas leis an Aire. It is welcome that we are discussing the regulation of lobbying. We need to be realistic about this. People's faith in the public and political system is at an all-time low. That is because of the behaviour of certain people. When people look at this Chamber and the debates that take place here, even though numbers of them voted for every one of us, they do not feel they have the same level of influence on their locally elected politicians as certain specific interests may have. It is important for us as elected representatives to realise that. It does not mean everybody in this Chamber is engaged in any kind of activity or anything like that. The point is that if this is the perception out there, then it is something we need to face head on and tackle.

Two years ago, my colleague, Deputy Doherty, and I brought forward the Regulation of Lobbying (Amendment) Bill 2020, which would have done much of what SIPO had asked to be enacted. I was only elected a few months at that point and a number of scandals had already hit that totally eroded people's trust and confidence in public and political life. While I welcome this discussion and the fact the Minister is moving on the issue, I am bitterly disappointed that when my colleagues and I brought forward our Bill two years ago, in September 2020, instead of supporting it, the Government decided to kick the can down the road. It is not good enough that we are only now discussing the issue.

Sometimes, when we look at how things work in other countries, we may think to ourselves that at least we are not as bad as they are at this moment in time. We can all bring such a comparison to mind today. However, when we look at the issue of lobbying in this country, my concern is that it is only going to get worse, not only in terms of the public perception but also in respect of the influence certain vested interests have. The Legislature is supposed to agree and enact legislation that is of benefit to the vast majority of people. It is not there to facilitate certain key interests. We must bear this in mind when looking at the great issues of the day.

At this moment in time, people are really suffering because the legislation has not been there to benefit the majority of people. A lot of the time, that is the actual crux of the issue for me.

I look forward to engaging on this particular legislation at committee level. I must say it has been very good that we have been able to engage constructively with the Minister at committee level. The Minister has taken on a lot of the different suggestions that we have made over a period of time. I hope to see that, and I am sure that I will see it, with this particular legislation.

There are a number of issues I want raise in particular. One of them is the cooling-off period, which caused one of the many scandals that we have seen in lobbying. It is definitely one of the main rules with which we can close that revolving door. It is there to prevent former insiders from being able to trade on their influence. As we know, under the current rules, there is no sanction for breaching the one-year cooling-off period. I believe the current period of one year is too short. It is clear from international best practice that a two-year period is seen as being absolutely crucial. We know that SIPO has called for a such a period of time. When we had a discussion on lobbying previously within our own committee, that is what the experts recommended. It is also what the report of the Joint Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach recommended. It is also exactly what the Bill I brought forward two years ago would have done. It is an issue we can discuss further on Committee Stage. We will thrash it out. However, I think it is unfortunate that at this point the Bill will not extend that period to two years.

We are finally going to see a breach of the cooling-off period being made an offence. I absolutely welcome that. I must say it is startling that it was not there initially. I just do not understand how it could have happened that a breach of that period was not made an offence. I cannot understand that, especially given that SIPO has told us time and again that it needs to happen. There has been failure to act for years. It is good that it is going to be included in the legislation, but how it got to this point is beyond me. What is the point in having a cooling-off period if there is no sanction for disregarding it? Under the Sinn Féin Bill, a breach of the cooling-off period would have been a criminal offence. That is exactly what SIPO recommended. Unfortunately, the Government has gone for a lesser sanction in the form of a civil sanction. We will discuss that on Committee Stage, and I look forward to that discussion. To be honest, my fear is that it is not a strong enough deterrent. That is my concern at this point. We know that under the legislation, certain people will be granted special exemptions from the cooling-off period. I am concerned that the Government is not going to require the names of those who are granted special exemptions to this cooling-off period to be made public. They should be made public so that it is very clear to people exactly who has been granted special exemptions. I must say I am not sure why that is not being done. We know that SIPO has been allowed to publish these details in the same way that we know that the Joint Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach has also called for it, and my own Bill has provided for it. It is really crucial. It is definitely something that I would ask the Minister to look at. I think that could be good.

One of the things I have never understood since being elected to this House is how previous Members are permitted special access all the time. It is something I just cannot comprehend. It means that if I were to lose my seat overnight, and I am sure Deputies would be devastated if that happened, I would still have access. I think it is outrageous that former Members can become lobbyists and have access. At the end of the day, there is a particular reason we talk about the corridors of power. It is something we definitely need to look at. We know that the report of the Joint Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach specifically recommended that this be removed. It is something that needs to be looked at. To be honest, I think if people were aware of it, they would really be astonished.

I also want to mention the Government's decision to extend the review period from three to five years. The Minister mentioned it in his speech. He might even pick up on it later or we can discuss it again at committee level. The review period is being changed from three to five years. My concern in relation to that is that lobbying activities and tactics change all the time. A few years ago, nobody knew that there would be such a thing as the Internet. We know the confusion and difficulties that can cause. I think we need a shorter review period so that we can move with the times. That is where my concern is in relation to that. We need to be agile to move with the times. Things can change very quickly in this area. It seems to me that if we are extending the review period, we are making it less reactive than it could be.

I hate using the phrase because it is so overused, but I think this is a missed opportunity. I believe the Minister fully understands the issues that have been noted with regard to the Regulation of Lobbying Act for a long time. He is clearly willing to make amendments to strengthen it, but this Bill really does not go far enough. There is a lot of work to be done on Committee Stage to strengthen it. The committee will come together and it will be done. We debated the Sinn Féin Bill on lobbying. I think that was a stronger Bill and it would have been better if that Bill had been enacted, particularly given that it was two years ago and so many different things have happened since then. We could have done with a strengthened lobbying Bill.

In conclusion, my core point is that we need to make this Bill as strong as possible so that we can restore confidence in public and political life and, crucially, make sure all the decisions that are made at every level within this Chamber are made for the benefit of the vast majority of people. We must ensure no one can say at any point that decisions were made just for a few because certain people had certain access and were able to use that access to influence decision-making. We are here for the vast majority of people. We need to recognise that and we need to have a lobbying Bill that is as strong as possible to ensure that remains the case.

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