Roderic O'Gorman (Dublin West, Green Party) | Oireachtas source

I thank all the Deputies who have contributed to this debate today and yesterday. The Government is committed to ensuring that every child gets the best start in life and to supporting parents to spend more time with their children in those precious years at the start of life. This Bill provides additional flexibility to ensure that parents and carers can be supported to balance their working and family lives.

This Government has been very active in extending parental and family leave. The Covid-19 pandemic revolutionised the workplace in many ways, but it has also made many of us much more aware of the need for a proper balance between our work life and our home life and for working parents and carers to be a vital part of that balancing act.

The intention behind the legislation is to ensure that parents, usually mothers, and carers, again usually women, are not lost from the workforce because of their obligations at home. The provisions of this Bill are important for the people who will benefit from them, but also for gender equality in the workplace and across wider society.

The Bill not only further transposes the EU work-life balance directive for parents and carers, it meets commitments under the First 5 strategy and the national strategy for women and girls to extend the entitlement to breastfeeding breaks and will provide additional support to women returning to work after maternity leave.

We have persistently-low levels of breastfeeding in Ireland, which Deputy Ó Cathasaigh spoke about in his contribution, and we are losing out on many of the benefits of breastfeeding for both mam and baby. The extension of breastfeeding breaks will play a valuable role in supporting continued breastfeeding and normalising breastfeeding mothers in the workplace.

I am grateful for the many contributions from Deputies. I will go through a couple of them and respond to a few of the more detailed queries now. This Bill is partially designed to implement the final pieces of an EU directive and, as such, those provisions linked to that are carefully drafted to ensure that we are fully in compliance with the EU directive and mindful of its spirit. It was especially fortuitous that Deputy Harkin was here, having been deeply involved with the drafting in her previous role as an MEP, to be able to speak a little bit about the history and the complexity of the drafting of this legislation.

Yesterday, a number of Deputies said that this legislation was solely the Government being forced to do what the EU wanted it to do. I have to be clear that is not accurate. Two elements of this Bill are implementation of EU law, namely, the five days' medical leave for parents and carers and the introduction of the right to request flexible work. However, the provisions we are bringing forward on breastfeeding rates and on domestic violence leave are not required under EU law. They are being brought forward in fulfilment of commitments within our programme for Government. It is worth making that point at the outset.

Deputy O'Reilly spoke on a number of points yesterday. The Deputy and many other contributors discussed the issue of proof for domestic violence leave. Let me be very clear on the amendments we will bring forward to introduce this. We will work to achieve a situation, further to the achievement of which is the introduction of policies is further, where the taking up of domestic violence leave would be based on trust in workplaces. It is not acceptable for victims to be asked to bring forward proof of the domestic violence they have suffered.

We will bring forward proposals that are not based on the need for proof but we recognise the complexity of this area. I refer to what Deputy McGrath said earlier on in that in my engagement with employers' groups concerns were raised about the obligations that knowledge an employee has been the victim of domestic violence places on the employer. There is some fear there and I wish to address that.

That is why we will also bring forward this policy of template policies that employers, from a large employer all the way down to a small business, can apply and implement. It will help them implement this leave, if a request comes from a member of staff, but it will also help them more generally support employees in terms of the issue of domestic violence is raised. We are conscious of those issues and we are looking to support, but we will not be looking for the proof for the provision of this legislation.

There are some employers both in the private and public sectors who have brought in their own policies on domestic violence leave. Deputy O'Reilly asked if that leave is for ten days, whether the introduction of five days' statutory leave will impact on it. It will not impact on that.

It is the same as where a company has a higher statutory annual leave level than the statutory one. The company level is not affected by the statutory one nor will a higher provision of other leave by an employer be impacted by our introducing statutory domestic violence leave.

Deputy Cronin made a number of broad points on gender equality and what we are seeking to achieve here. She spoke about equal and accessible childcare. We have taken a big step in this year's budget by looking to achieve a 25% average cut in the cost of childcare fees by the very significant investment we are putting into the national childcare scheme. It will be a subsidised system that cuts parents' costs. We have also provided core funding to support services. The Deputy referred to the idea of women handing their children over to other women to be cared for in childcare and referenced that the vast majority of the workforce in early years is female. The figure is about 97%. Again, we were pleased to secure a pay increase for 73% of them through the employment regulation order that is funded through core funding. It is a really important for workers who are by and large female.

A number of Deputies referenced other forms of leave. Deputy Cronin mentioned bereavement leave on the death of a child. I think Deputy Martin Kenny referred to leave following a criminal assault or something like that. Deputies Higgins and Sherlock referred to miscarriage leave and other Deputies mentioned other forms of leave. Every one of them sounds like an entirely valid reason for leave to be given. We have done a lot of work on the forms of leave we are bringing forward in this Bill. There has been engagement with the social partners, namely, unions, employers and other representative groups. On the specific issue of miscarriage leave, and following on from a Private Members' Bill that was in the Seanad I think a year ago, my Department has committed to doing further research. That research is ongoing. Deputies will be bringing forward other proposals on leave and they need to be discussed and understood in the round. To sound a note of caution on any of those proposals, it is not, in any way, to say they are not valid and very real reasons for leave to be given.

Moving to a final point on the domestic violence provisions, we are proposing that it will be reviewed after two years so that we can have an understanding of its implementation, its take-up and whether we should be looking to move from five days. Much legislation nowadays has a review period. We felt because this statutory entitlement is so new and we will be one of the first countries in Europe doing it, it is important we examine it relatively soon after it is introduced to see how it is being implemented. We picked the two-year period to allow two employment cycles to understand if there are any issues around it and if there are any ways we can support it through the policies we are looking to bring forward it as well. That is just a wise step to take when bringing in brand new leave like this, which is innovative, in that you have a full understanding of its implications. If elements of it need to be tweaked, that can be done in subsequent legislation.

Deputy Sherlock raised a number of points about the cut-off point of 12 years of age for accessibility of care leave and flexible leave. The directive itself provides for these to be applied up to the age of eight years. We have extended it and applied it up to the age of 12 years but it is important to say, especially with medical care leave, that a parent who is also a carer for a child can, where the child has gone beyond the age of 12 years, still apply for this leave. Indeed, a parent who is a carer for a child who is now an adult can also apply for the medical care leave.

There was some discussion on the grounds for refusal, especially of flexible leave. There is a balance here in that if you are too specific, you are seen as giving a charter to, and lots of ways for, employers to get out of it and if you are too vague, it is seen as giving them any reason. We are trying to strike a balance here. There has been a similar discussion in the context on remote working. We are bound by the directive we are implementing and it is clear that when considering requests for flexible working arrangements, employers should be able to take into account the duration of the flexible working arrangements requested, the employer's resources and operational capacity to effect such arrangements. The employer should be able to decide to accept or refuse a worker's request for flexible working arrangements. It is true to say that this is a right to request and not an automatic right to flexible work. The right to request is the right that is protected and provided for in the directive. It would not be possible to provide an exhaustive list of reasons for refusal within the legislation. Doing that would risk limiting the right we are trying to create.

Deputy Sherlock also asked why a person must be employee for six months to avail of the right. That is set out in section 13B(4) which provides that a "...flexible working arrangement [for caring purposes] shall not commence before a time when the employee concerned has completed 6 months continuous employment with the employer concerned". Section 13B(5) provides for workers on temporary contracts to have been in previous employment with the employer for at least six months, deemed as a continuous period of service for the purpose of calculating the qualifying period. Providing a minimum length of service before an employee can commence a flexible working arrangement allows the employer the time to assess the plausibility and the practicalities of a request from a new employee. Employers can of course waive that period if they wish. When you look at the other forms of leave, many of them require a minimum period. For parental leave and carer's leave, there is a one-year minimum period of employment and even the statutory sick leave scheme requires a 13-week period of continuous service.

Deputy Cairns and I think Deputy Harkin asked what information an employer can require from the employee under the legislation. Section 5 of the Bill inserts a new section 13A into the 1998 Act. Section 13A(8) sets out what information an employer may request when in receipt of a confirmation of leave for medical care purposes. This includes information on the employee's relationship with the person for whom care must be provided, the nature of the significant care and support and evidence relating to their need for significant care and support. Section 13A(9) states that the "relevant evidence" may be a medical certificate or where that is not available some other form of evidence. These provisions are mirrored in section 6 in respect of a request for flexible working. Again, the provision of this leave is closely modelled on existing provisions in family leave legislation and, in particular, the Parental Leave Act 1998 that it amends. Information of a similar nature is sought for other forms of leave, such as parental leave, where information on the child can be requested, including on any disability. Again, for force majeureleave, a statement of facts must be provided to support the leave but obviously any legislation we bring forward and the application and implementation of it has to be done in a GDPR-compliant way. GDPR is part of EU and domestic law and everything that is done in this or in any other legislation must be done in a GDPR-compatible manner.

There are a number of other points I will briefly follow up on. Deputy Cairns raised the dissatisfaction about domestic, sexual and gender-based violence, DSGBV, leave being brought in as a Committee Stage amendment. The thinking here is that work had been under way on this directive prior to me becoming Minister and implementing the various issues. DSGBV leave was discussed in the context of a motion from I think Sinn Féin in December 2020. At that point, I had articulated that I was looking to bring forward separate legislation but officials correctly advised we could implement it more quickly by bringing it in as an amendment to this legislation. The amendments will come forward on Committee Stage, so they will be seen on that Stage, on Report Stage and all the way through the Seanad. With the goal being to get DSGBV leave onto the Statute Book as quickly as possible, it is the right thing to do to include it as a Committee Stage amendment to this Bill.

One of the four elements that probably has not got the attention it deserves is the change we are bringing to breastfeeding breaks. Breastfeeding breaks are part of Irish law and have been since 2004. Under the law, a woman is entitled to take an hour's paid break per day. She can take it as one 60-minute break, two 30-minute breaks or three 20-minute breaks, to breastfeed or to express milk. It is only guaranteed in the first six months and the vast majority of women take their full 26 weeks of maternity leave, so hardly any women have taken up this right. We have a nice-looking right on our Statute Book that no one can avail of. That is why it is so significant that we are moving from six months to two years, so women will be able to avail of this significant right for an 18-month period, for one hour per day. It will be a significant step to reducing those low levels of breastfeeding in our country and to helping and promoting the return of women to the workplace following pregnancy. It is a significant point. It is not required by EU law, but it is the Government following through on a commitment in the programme for Government.

I will address comments made by Deputies Tóibín and Mattie McGrath. This legislation does not delete the words "woman" or "women" from any legislation. That is clear in section 15 of the Bill. I will not get into that any more but to be clear, this Bill does not delete the word "women" from Irish legislation.

Deputies Higgins and Harkin referred to the issue of maternity leave for Oireachtas Members. My Department is working on that issue. We had initial engagement with the women's caucus and subsequent engagement with all female Members of the Oireachtas about their views of what this would look like. We are continuing to work on that. It is essential and needs to be addressed in this term of government.

The policy that we are bringing in for domestic, sexual and gender-based violence leave is important. I referred to it earlier. We need to support smaller employers that do not have a big HR departments in implementing this leave. That is a response to an issue raised by employer groups in our engagement with them.

Deputy Harkin made a point about leave for medical care purposes being paid or unpaid. There is a balance here. There are different types of leave. In existing and new leave, there is a balance between it being paid for by the employer, paid for by the State and unpaid leave. In this legislation, we are introducing domestic violence leave which would be paid for by the employer. We are introducing the leave for medical care purposes, which would be unpaid. It is also worth remembering existing force majeureleave, which is paid leave. The Government has taken other steps where the leave is paid as a social protection benefit. This Government has brought in five extra weeks of parents' leave per parent over the past three years. It is paid as a social protection benefit. There is a balance here. There has to be a degree of flexibility between the cost being shared by the employer, the State, and also in certain circumstances where it is an unpaid leave measure.

The title of this Bill includes the phrase, "work life balance", which is the focus of what we are trying to achieve with this legislation. The reality, as we know, is that family life and caring responsibilities do not pause between 9 a.m. and 5 p.m. every day. If we are to be a more equal and more progressive country, the Government has to help parents and it has to help carers to balance their work and family lives. The Government must be at the forefront in ensuring that our lives reflect and foster that evolving relationship between family life, work, and caring responsibilities. We have to support people to have the time and space to care for their loved ones and to respond to the various challenges that life can bring.

This Bill is Ireland's most ambitious legislation directed solely at improving work-life balance. It will help to deliver that better balance. It will deliver a right to request flexible working so that mothers, fathers and carers can be there for their children and families. It will deliver five days of leave per year for care for serious medical issues, so that in the most stressful moments of parents' lives, their focus can be solely on supporting a person who is ill. It will extend breastfeeding breaks from six months to two years. It will, for the first time, introduce paid leave for the victims of domestic violence. This will make Ireland one of the first countries in the EU to do this. This is transformative legislation that will protect and promote women's participation in the workplace. I commend this legislation to the House.

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