Martin Kenny (Sligo-Leitrim, Sinn Fein) | Oireachtas source

We support the proposal. I understand what it is trying to do. We all recognise the aggression of Russia against Ukraine and many of its neighbours in recent times is something we in a civilised world have to stand firmly against and ensure we are very strong in this regard. One of the measures the European Union is using against all of this is sanctions. They are a key tool being used by the European Union against the regime in Moscow, and it is quite appropriate. We all understand the logic behind what the sanctions are trying to do. We also understand we have to have measures to deal with those who would be in breach of the sanctions and find a way that all of the countries in the European Union can be in unison in how we deal with it. As we know, here in Ireland we have large financial services centres. They can be enabling bodies as they trade in stocks, shares or commodities. Some of the proceeds may in the past have moved through the financial services centre in Dublin. We need to keep a very close eye on all of this.

Something that always strikes me when it comes to sanctions and statements that we will not buy Russian oil, gas or this, that and the other because of what it is doing in Ukraine is that most countries in Europe will look around to see where else they can buy them from. Often the alternatives are equally as bad and in some cases even worse than Russia. We can look at the history of what has been going on in Yemen and the role of the Saudis there. We need to be conscious that the option to do one thing can create a situation where alternatives may not be much better than what we start out with. It poses a moral dilemma but there needs to be recognition that when all is said and done, first and foremost we in Europe need to look at how we can work collectively to come up with alternatives that guarantee and protect the human rights of people everywhere and not just in Ukraine.

The actions of Putin and the regime in Russia reflect a particular type of corporate fascism that has developed in Russia since the fall of the Berlin Wall and all of the changes that happened when the USSR broke up.

What came to power and established since then has been very dangerous and certainly has no place in the modern world. Basically, we have a regime that is based on oligarchs and very wealthy individuals having considerable influence on the government of that country. We see that in other countries as well. The impact of that goes beyond what is happening in Ukraine, from the point of view that there is a military invasion there which is very clear for everyone to see. The impacts of the activities of some of these very wealthy individuals who are closely connected to the Russian regime or to other despots in other parts of the world is on the economic markets and in how they can influence trade and commerce and have a very detrimental influence on human rights for many people and places throughout the world.

The reality is that we all, of course, stand with Ukraine and hope Russia can be pushed back and defeated, but we have a bigger choice to make and a bigger job at work, which is to choose a better way forward and try to build democracy. I know there is a move to ensure Ukraine can join the European Union and for other countries in the former eastern bloc also to have that opportunity. We have sets of rules and guidelines as to how they have progressed from the point of view of democracy. Levels of corruption in those countries have been and continue to be a serious issue. Unfortunately, Ukraine is not immune to that either. We need to have our eyes wide open when we go into these situations. That said, the future can be very positive if we get over this, but we have to work on making it positive.

Part of that is to ensure all the countries in Europe can have strict and uniform laws around how to protect our democracies and ensure there would be a means of adequately punishing those who would be in breach of the sanctions put in place. The most adequate way of punishing those people is to go after and take their assets because, up to now, we have not had laws strong enough to be able to do so here or in any other part of the European Union.

That is one of the flaws in much of this. We were told Europe was about the free movement of trade and people, but what was never said was that it was also about the free movement of capital. That is the big issue. The free movement of capital has caused an awful lot of our problems and we need to be able to put in place measures in order that we can control that. That is the key issue in respect of all of this, because those who control that capital are very often unscrupulous individuals who are very closely connected to despots, not just in Russia, but in other parts of the world.

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