Michael Fitzmaurice (Roscommon-Galway, Independent) | Oireachtas source

I welcome the opportunity to speak on this legislation. In the last few hours it was on the news that the G7 has said very clearly that unfortunately for them, because of the situation that is evolving, they are now making sure about fuel security and that fossil fuels have to be used more. I have said this for the last few years but people did not want to listen. That is the reality because of the situation and they have to just live with it. A bit of reality has to come into it. Why have we a shortage of power here? Why have we amber alerts? There are more people working, thankfully, but there were also stations that needed refurbishment and we lost Bord na Móna. We lost Bord na Móna because of EU law. The environmentalists went to the courts here and made sure to try to stop it. Unfortunately, no Government since has decided to try to repeal any of those laws. That is the reality, no more than the horticulture sector. Bord na Móna has been shut down for the last few years and now it is coming home to bite. While no one has a problem with offshore wind, and I hope I am proved wrong, to get everything up and running we are talking about 2030 between planning and all the different things. I saw the other day in Killybegs there was an agreement signed with the fishermen.

However, going through all the different processes that are needed, and the same environmentalists will probably object again regarding the Porcupine Bank off the west coast and so on, will slow the job down. The wind is not consistent enough inland, so there is no point. There are days when we do not have wind and we have to up the ante on gas especially.

Deputies asked if there will be additional emissions in this country. The Minister of State can correct me if I am wrong but my understanding is that energy produced for electricity supply is part of the European Union emissions trading scheme, ETS, and it is not counted in the country producing it. The ESB was given 1 million carbon credits under the ETS free of charge when it was burning peat in power stations. The same was done in other countries. Where have the 1 million carbon credits gone? They were surely worth €24 or €25 each, which makes €24 million or €25 million. Who has them or where are have they gone? That is a big question.

The Green Party is in government in Germany and today it had to announce the reopening of the coal mines, as the Minister of State said.

There is a huge opportunity in energy. We have the likes of anaerobic digestion but nothing is being done on it. Right around the country people are crying out to have a go at that. There is solar power from farm buildings and all of that. There is a move starting but everything is so slowly that it is not counteracting. People are probably worried, especially about prices. We will get an interconnector with France but we do want nuclear anywhere in this country. Everyone nearly jumps up in the air when they hear about it. However, we do not mind taking in the 450 MW of electricity that will come in from the interconnector in a year or two.

I presume the new generators will be gas powered. The Minister of State might let me know if that is right. They will probably be on the east coast because the gas pipeline is mostly in the east. What I cannot fathom is that we do not want an LNG terminal below in the Chair's area but we are happy to take it in through a pipe from the UK or wherever else. It is all right if it comes through a pipe but it is not all right to create a few jobs in areas where we require them. I cannot fathom that mentality. Whether we like it or not or whether people jump up and down or not, the reality is that for the next 30 or 40 years, we will definitely be relying on gas and, in my opinion, a fair amount of diesel as well. We have to face up to these facts. The wind does not always blow. If we go offshore, we have a better chance of having wind constantly but the Atlantic has not been tested with offshore turbines. The Atlantic is a ferocious beast when the wind is blowing at full throttle at night or in the day. It is one of the toughest seas. While offshore wind has worked, in fairness, off the east coast, which is great, there is a problem there.

I welcome the provision that people will get a €75 refund. We should acknowledge and welcome what is good in a Bill. The sooner the refund is in place, the better. Given all the amber alerts we have experienced in the past 18 months, people do not have a problem with making sure we have energy security. We must have it; that is the bottom line. However we draw or achieve that, we have to do it. The Government or the ESB has to do it. We have to make sure we do not let the lights go out in the country, as happened in Sri Lanka yesterday where the lights went out because not enough fuel got into the country. We do not want to see situations like that. We must make sure of two things. First, we must have food security, and I worry about the road farmers are being brought down at the moment. Second, we need energy security. If you do not provide those two basics for your people, you are in serious trouble.

I will now talk about how valuable a sod of turf will be to ordinary people next winter. I was talking to a fuel merchant yesterday. An ordinary bag of coal cost €22 last year. The price went to €27, then €35 and then €42, and it is expected to be €50 next winter. An ordinary person cannot afford that. The bit of turf that people cut if they rent a plot for €500 or €600 will do them for the winter. People can jump up and down. In ten or 12 years’ time, that generation will have moved on to something else. Have a look at the bag of coal costing €22 that will cost €50. Can we blame people for looking for alternatives? The bottom line is they need to do so. There will not be enough money to go around for everyone. Those people will act on their own initiative and make sure they get what they need.

I am blue in the face hearing about renewables and all of this. People need to get into their heads that no one has a problem with new technology or new stuff coming. I read an interesting article the day before yesterday. A columnist in one of the newspapers wrote six years ago that we would have self-driving cars and people would be able to sit in them and they would go around the place. It would be hunky-dory and everything would be lovely. He acknowledged in the article I read that he was wrong, and fair play to him for admitting it. I have been hearing about renewables for the past ten or 12 years. There are some renewables and we are able to cater for more of them but if we look at the technologies that are coming, we are ten or 20 years away from perfecting hydrogen, offshore wind and so on. We need to live in the real world and acknowledge that we have to use these other fuels for that length of time. We will have to straddle them or have them side by side. We must not knock off the light in one room to find when we go into another room that the light will not turn on. In other words, do not go telling people they cannot use something and then when they look to renewables they find they do not work. I want to let Deputy Connolly speak.

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