Martin Kenny (Sligo-Leitrim, Sinn Fein) | Oireachtas source

All of us understand and agree that this motion on carbon budgets is about setting the destination to which we want to get. We all share a common bond in our desire to get to that destination. Where we may have disagreements is in the route that we take. There are, of course, difficulties for many sectors when we get into this issue and try to deal with it. There are also opportunities for many sectors and we should not forget that. We all acknowledge that.

The farming sector is one of the areas that has the most difficulty. The people in that sector are very concerned about the situation. The farmers in my part of the world are mainly beef and suckler farmers who sell their cattle on. They are fearful that their whole model of farming will come under pressure. They anticipate pressure being put on them to reduce the herd but at the same time they see Europe, which we are all part of, doing trade deals with places like Latin America, where they are talking about cutting down rainforests in order to allow more beef to be produced. Those rainforests are, or were, the lungs of the earth. That interconnectedness is not lost on the ordinary farmers in Ballinagleragh or Ballysadare or anywhere like that. They are keyed in and understand the situation. They are angry that these things are being foisted on them and they see an unfairness in all of it. That needs to be addressed. It is not enough to tell farmers and people in the farming sector that there are going to be opportunities. It needs to be spelt out to them where those opportunities are and how they are going to be delivered.

I attended a farmers' meeting approximately four years ago. Someone at that meeting was talking about putting solar panels on the roofs of farmers' sheds and how it was going to be an opportunity for farmers. I have been listening to that proposal since I came into this House in 2016 and it still has not happened. I cannot for the life of me understand why. With all due respect to the Green Ministers and the Green Party members of the Government, I would have expected the Green Party to have sorted that out quickly when it got into government. That is just one example.

The other issue about the opportunities that may arise is the doubt around the income that is possible to be generated. Farmers, and everyone else in society, want to see what opportunities there are. If we are talking about new green energy, a new green programme and a new sustainable future, there must be opportunities in that. There must be jobs and incomes for people. We need to see where those opportunities are going to be and how we can deliver them.

There is a retrofitting scheme in place at the moment. I have met several people, as I am sure all of us have, who have come to my office and asked when, where and how they can get the grant. Most of us do not have answers for them. We should have. We should be able to tell them whether they will qualify or not. We should be able to tell them what rate of grant they are going to get and how they can source it. The biggest question they have is who is going to do the work for them. They want to know where the materials are going to come from. Those are real and serious problem that people have.

There is general consensus on our carbon budgets and where we want to get to over the coming years. There is also general consensus in the community. Most ordinary people have a keen understanding that this is something they can do. They want to work at it and pursue those goals. They want a more sustainable future for their children and their children's children but they need assistance. There is a bit of a disconnect in being able to deliver that.

We often meet people who ask us about the retrofitting scheme. An elderly person who wants to get a grant to put new windows into a house can approach the local authority. He or she will then be told that if their household income is less than €30,000, a 95% grant is available. If their income is more than €40,000, a 50% is available. If their income is between €50,000 and €60,000, a 30% grant is available. No grant is available if one has an income higher than €60,000. That is logical and clear. Why can we not take a similar approach when it comes to retrofitting houses? Why can we not say that the people who are on the smallest incomes and trying to manage while raising a family can get a higher level of grant and those with higher incomes, perhaps €100,000 or more, will get a much lower grant? Why can we not do that to try to bring balance back into the situation? That is one of the things that really frustrates people.

The big issue is the access to funding. We are told that a large part of the issue relates to energy and where we get our energy from. I certainly feel there are big opportunities in green energy, offshore wind and solar power. However, we need investment. The Government needs to be prepared to say that the investment will have to come first. We need big investment from the Government to be able to deliver those alternative energy sources. We need to be able to produce clean green energy. There is no point in people having electric cars when the energy that is driving those cars is coming from a gas-fuelled power station or some other fossil fuel power station.

We need to get this right. We are all in it together and we understand that. The destination is clear but the route to it is unclear for many people. The real job of the Government is to make a clearer route for people.

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