John McGuinness (Carlow-Kilkenny, Fianna Fail) | Oireachtas source

I will begin by taking up the point made by the previous speaker in respect of this and other issues with which the State is dealing whereby we tend to leave people behind. For me, consultation is extremely important. The outcome of that consultation is even more important.

We do not factor that in at the early stages in order to impress on people that their concerns, suggestions or ambitions are heard. In order to gain the support of people, we need to deal with the issues they are grappling with at this time.

The programme for Government was written at a time when we did not know what the financial impact of Covid would be. We did not know about the Russian war or the Brexit issues that continue to knock us off course in terms of our economic development. At today's meeting of the finance committee, at which we discussed many matters relating to this issue, we were told that there would be offsets. I do not know what those offsets will be. My concern is for those who cannot afford to heat their homes and those who are concerned about whether they will be able to afford their weekly shopping. I am concerned about the marginalised, the elderly and the sick. I wonder how they are going to afford this. Today, I am told there will be offsets. Does that mean that the offsets, in some way by payment through another means, will put the money back into the pockets of these people?

I listened to the Taoiseach when he said that nobody will be worse off. Today, the Minister for Finance, Deputy Donohoe, indicated that that would be the case and that he is currently in negotiations with the Minister for Public Expenditure and Reform and his Department. We should know all of these things now so that we can tell our constituents that there is no need to worry and how this is going to work. If one were cynical about these things, one would say that it is like a three-card trick. On one side, the money comes and we honour our obligation to the environment, the programme for Government, the Green Party and anyone else - all of us in this House want to protect the environment - and, on the other, the money slips back out into the pockets of whomever is affected. That is what I take from it.

I want to highlight all of those people I have just mentioned and the fact that they need to know where they are going. A responsible Government that is concerned about its people and protecting them will explain in layman's language where we are going with this, what the cost will mean for people, businesses and farmers and how that cost will be offset for those who are in difficulty. The people in difficulty are many. For example, the contractors were in last week. They told us that they may not be able to get diesel to do their annual contracting work, be it in forestry or farming. They want diesel ring-fenced in order that they can be sure they will have a supply of it. That is not mention the cost of diesel. The farming community has stated that its inputs in terms of general farm work are significantly higher. In terms of the offsets we are being told will be there, what is in it for the farmers and the hauliers? Another group that is affected are the growers. For example, a man who is growing tomatoes down near Wexford told me his energy bill has increased to €100,000. He is dealing with the multiples. The multiples are dictating the price that they will pay for his produce. He will not be in business because he will not be able to carry that cost. There are other areas where the costs can be passed on. At the end of the day, it is the customer in the supermarket and so on who will pay the cost. If a company is being levied with a 7% or 10% diesel surcharge in order for the transport company to stay in business, because that company is not a charity it is going to pass on that charge to the customer, which inevitably will feed into the increased costs associated with food and everything else that comes from the supply line. As I said, every now and then, we will be hit with a Brexit issue which will knock everything off course.

In terms of retrofitting, those who are serious about their homes and the environment and want to sell back to the grid are not able to do that. At the moment, they get no credit for what is sent back to the grid. Again, it is a case of the cart being put before the horse. These are issues that should have been sorted out long before now in order for people to be convinced that they are part of what we are doing here in terms of regulation and carbon budgets, or any other budgets for that matter.

There are questions that are not being answered for them. All they hearing is the term "carbon tax" and they are relating that to the increases of one kind or another in food, energy and utility bills. In rural Ireland, it is very different than it is in urban centres where there is public transport and access to services and facilities. Earlier this week, the five Deputies representing Carlow-Kilkenny were asked on radio if we would car pool and travel here together. That may be a great idea. It may be an even better idea for us to use public transport but none of that meets our needs because there are different demands on each of us. There are different demands on the public. We do not have the public transport to allow us play our part in all of this. I would like to know what is going to be done about that.

Similarly, with respect, the Minister has suggested various ways and means by which households can contribute by cutting down on showers, car journeys and so on. It needs to be realised that families throughout the country are already doing that. At the various junctions on the ring road around our city and Carlow are cars that are parked up because people are sharing their transport to work, school or college in another county. That is already happening. Some people are doing that because of the environment. Most are doing it because they cannot afford the cost.

In regard to the price of oil and so on, the rate of mineral oil tax on 1,000 l was €120 in March. It is set to increase further to €138 and then to €158. Likewise, with petrol. We cannot escape the fact that this is all being put upon the shoulders of people that are already carrying a burden in terms of their financial circumstances such that it is impossible for them to make ends meet or to participate fully in the development of a sound green economy with positive impacts for the environment. They want to play their part. I have never before seen at my clinics so many people who are suffering some form of poverty. It may be that they have cut down on all sorts of things or that they cannot afford to pay for certain things. There are those on low incomes and some in the squeezed middle who are so tied up in debt they too are experiencing difficulties. We have to understand that in this House. We cannot continue to impose extra charges on them. I am not against carbon tax, as I stated publicly during the week, but I want a sensible approach to it. If that sensible approach involves offsets, then I would like to know what those offsets are. If Europe is looking at the possibility of reducing VAT or allowing us to reduce VAT, then tell us that.

Plan for the short term and the long term. Explain to the people we represent the different steps we will take along that journey. If that happens, we might not hear scary stories from people who are concerned because they are running businesses and finding it hard to make a profit or are not making a profit. Farmers and others are in the same boat as businesses generally. They are uncertain about the future. We cannot forget those people living on the poverty line. They too are watching what we are doing and how we are doing it, and considering how it will impact their lives.

I ask the Government to tell us please what the offsets are. I ask it to tell us what it is doing about VAT at European level. I ask it to stop sending out messages that are confusing people. Stop telling people to cut back on different things in their homes and businesses and understand that people are already doing those things our of necessity. Listen to the various groups that come to us and plead with us to listen to their case. Bring forward some form of package to assist them. The Government should reach out to those people and tell them what plan it has.

My problem is the lack of information that the public is getting. It is getting mixed messages. Perhaps as a result of pressure applied by backbenchers or the Opposition, the Government has finally come to the point where in dealing with the carbon tax, it is going to have offsets and Europe is going to reduce VAT. People must plan now for the future. Business plans for the future. All I am asking is that we would hear about any plans in the House so we can tell the people we represent about the plan in order to reduce their worry and concern. There is enough of that in life as it is. There are enough people suffering form all sorts of illnesses and mental issues as it is. I call on the Government to be helpful rather than vague.

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