John McGuinness (Carlow-Kilkenny, Fianna Fail) | Oireachtas source

I welcome the Bill. I commend the Joint Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach on its work on the pre-legislative scrutiny on the Bill and the various recommendations that came from that committee. In his response, I ask the Minister to deal with each and every recommendation so that we know what the standing of the Department is in relation to the report and to the recommendations.

I want to put on record too that there have been many whistleblowers down through the years. The one who should have been listened to at the time of the financial crash was Mr. Jonathan Sugarman. Mr. Sugarman came forward and did what was expected of him in accordance with the legislation and reported to the Central Bank. No one from the State has ever commented positively in relation to Mr. Sugarman but when you examine his case, you will see that as a whistleblower he was poorly served by the State. As a Member of this House and Chairman of the Joint Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach, I thank Mr. Sugarman for coming forward and for doing what he thought was right. It was right as it was within the law. I condemn the authorities around that case which did not take the appropriate action and did not give Mr. Sugarman the type of respect and protection that he required at that time under law. That is what happens to whistleblowers. The whistleblower makes the complaint and then he or she becomes the victim.

Mr. Maurice McCabe is someone else who blew the whistle extensively. Luckily for Mr. McCabe, he had a strong wife and family who saw him through that crisis. What the State did to Mr. McCabe was a shocking example of how it can beat up its own citizens.

Recently, we debated the Grace case in this House. It is interesting to note that the whistleblower in that case lost her job. She is no longer employed in the agency that she was in. It is also a terrible reflection on the State that the Director of Public Prosecutions, DPP, would say that there are no prosecutions to be taken against agencies or individuals relevant to Grace and, indeed, the 47 others. What an absolute disgrace that is. In some way, that office must be held responsible in the course of our work in this House. I would ask the Ceann Comhairle, which I did in writing, to bring forward some method by which that can be discussed here because it certainly does not make sense that the whistleblower would be fired and no one will pay a price in the courts for what happened to the woman who was not able to express herself in any way and was mentally and physically challenge.

If you think it has gone away now - the 2014 Bill deals with everything else - you could not be more incorrect. At present, Gaisce, an agency funded by the State, is paying significant sums in legal fees to defend a position it holds on an employee, which is indefensible.

There is no defence for what it is doing, but yet it is doing the usual thing the State does, which is pushing an individual to the pin of their collar and breaking the individual and their family.

I have raised the case of CIT in the House numerous times and will continue to do so because it is an example of the bad legacy of the past being brought into the new structures for the present and for the future. A whistleblower there went to mediation and is now being hung out to dry. I have appealed to the Minister, the Taoiseach and others to please intervene and get it sorted but nothing has happened. That, too, is a shame.

I wish to refer to Noel McGree, who is a whistleblower. He won his case and is still being challenged by the Department of Justice. On the day that we are discussing the introduction of this Bill there are people out there who have been treated in an horrendous way by the State, and the State continues to treat them in this way. It begs the question as to where the political leadership is that will turn around to those who are causing the difficulty for the individuals and say: "Stop, you are not doing this in the name of the Government. You are to treat these people fairly and honourably, and in the way described in the existing legislation or according to the new legislation we are discussing today."

Seanie O'Brien is another man who was badly treated by the State and the Prison Service. He and his family ended up broken and no effort is being made to reach out to him.

John Barrett blew the whistle in the Committee of Public Accounts in terms of the Garda, the numbers and what was happening there. He lost his job. He is gone. The same is true of Julie Grace in Galway. She is another lady who came forward but the Minister will not deal with it. The case has dragged on for years.

It is the same with Shane Kavanagh and the EBS in the private sector. He and others are out of a job and the EBS will not respond to them.

Lucia O’Farrell's son was murdered on the road, but in terms of whistleblowing, she has outlined as part of her investigation the failure of the State in relation to the DPP, the Garda, the courts and so on. It would be a great exercise for the State if it were to examine the case. We passed a motion in this House in the previous Dáil for a tribunal of sorts to be put in place to deal with the case but, typical of the political system, we do one thing in opposition and another thing in government.

I will finish on this point in terms of the generality of the Bill, the Departments have insisted on putting in place confidentiality clauses which prevent the State and us from learning from the failures of the State. I asked the Minister to tell me how many Departments have insisted on confidentiality clauses and what the cases were settled for, because the Government is conning the people and we need to know the truth.

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