Gary Gannon (Dublin Central, Social Democrats) | Oireachtas source

I thank Sinn Féin and in particularly Deputy Clarke for tabling this motion today. It is certainly a timely debate that needs to be had. The very antithesis of restorative justice is to retraumatise the victims. That is not the first time I have used those words in this Chamber related to a group of people, in particular women, who have been wronged in a most gruesome fashion. I have said that the interaction they have had with the State has compounded their suffering as they have sought justice for the wrongs inflicted on them.

I thought about that statement again last week when, at the invitation of Deputy Tóibín, I along with Opposition Deputies sat in the audiovisual room of Leinster House and listened to the testimony of three incredible people who are part of a collective of survivors of abuse in our Defence Forces who came to be known as the Women of Honour. Honourable those women certainly are. Having first become aware of their experiences through the RTÉ programme of the same title presented by Katie Hannon and then through an exchange of emails with the group and through the extensive media coverage since, I thought I was familiar with the harrowing truths they were once again sharing with a room of strangers in search of justice and necessary reform of our Defence Forces. However, there is something altogether different about sitting in a room with women outlining their experiences of harassment, bullying, sexual assault and rape which shakes the body to its very core while staring into the whites of their eyes as they outlined their case.

Adding to the sense of anger in the room was the fact that the women in front of us had just returned from another unsatisfactory meeting with the Taoiseach that very same day. In previous days they had taken a decision to walk out in frustration from a meeting with the Minister for Defence, having felt that the promises made to them previously as to their involvement in the drafting of the terms of reference or the form of the inquiry into the abuse which they suffered would take had been reneged upon.

Sitting in that room last Monday, I and other Deputies present could not help but wonder why the architecture of our Republic always makes it so bloody difficult for those wronged while in the care or employ of the State to make right the wrongs which they have experienced once they have been brought to light.

The motion calls for the establishment of a commission of investigation into abuse, assault and rape experienced by the Women of Honour and other men and women in our Defence Forces. It is a motion supported by the very people who experienced those horrors while in the service of the State. I see no reason to debate any further avenues, which survivors have already expressed no confidence in. That we are even here today debating the reasons an internal review into abuse, sexual assault and rape is not a satisfactory avenue for justice for the people who have experienced that very same abuse raises fundamental questions for me about in whose interest we seek to govern here and what exactly it means to be a custodian of a Department in our Republic.

The women of honour we speak of today and other men and women wronged while in the Defence Forces at every level have called for a commission of investigation with statutory powers. Neither the State nor any of us in this Chamber has any legitimacy in denying them that right and insisting upon a style of inquiry in which those who seek truths have no confidence.

I am very conscious that as we speak here today there is an ongoing debate on the role, purpose and capacity of our Defence Forces. As I sat before the Women of Honour last week, I wondered why anybody would choose a life in our armed services at this moment. Women and men subsequently came to me and outlined the corrosive culture where bullying exists and where internal reviews are not done in a satisfactory way.

As a member of the Joint Committee on Foreign Affairs and Defence, I find it almost insulting that I had to leave one committee meeting on foreign affairs to come to another really important Dáil debate on an issue of incredible importance. I cannot be at both. If I, simply as a spokesperson for my party on these issues, cannot be in two places in once, how can a Minister think they can control both of those Departments when so many ongoing issues of importance are happening?

In a Republic, I fundamentally believe that institutions decay in the absence of ministerial control. Today's newspapers carry another report of a lockdown party outside McKee Barracks where a female soldier was assaulted by a military officer. We see the commission into the future of our Defence Forces finding that our Defence Forces are in disarray be that air, sea or land.

They have absolutely no capacity. Retention levels among their personnel are at an all-time low, and we must wonder why that is. I would surmise that some of the experiences we are hearing about have led to that. If nobody is in control, accountability does not exist. From the very office of the Minister right down to the rank and file, there seems to be an absence of leadership and of investment not only in the capacity of our Defence Forces but also in the morale of those we ask to stand forward and serve. All these conversations about how we defend ourselves have to start with how we look after, manage and respect the very personnel we expect to put themselves in harm's way.

I know very well, coming as I do from an inner-city environment, where many people, young fellas in particular but young girls too, aspire to be in the Defence Forces, that there is a great pride in going into our Defence Forces. People to this day are proud of that. We had a trip to Haulbowline several months ago and I went down to a naval base that is almost dystopian in the sense that it has ships that cannot go out to sea because we do not have the personnel to manage them. The members of the Navy sitting there wanting to go to sea are really proud to be in that environment and to represent and to serve our country. We talk about the overseas missions in which they have been involved, in particular in taking people from the waters. However, they also talk about the fact that they cannot provide for their families and find it difficult to pay their rent. Some of them are putting off having families because they cannot afford to do so. They talk about the conditions. I remember that a couple of years ago, when the Pope visited, armed personnel were asked to sleep on the ground. Then we go further into this and find that not only do the conditions they speak of exist but the conditions of bullying, harassment, assault in some cases and a horrific misogynistic culture still exists in the Defence Forces and nobody seems to have their foot on the brake. What I witnessed last week, staring into the eyes of the Women of Honour, was an endemic culture in our Defence Forces that is simply toxic. There are so many proud people in the Defence Forces, but the infrastructure of the State does not seem willing to support them.

Sinn Féin has tabled a motion seeking a statutory commission of investigation. We cannot deny that. It echoes the sentiments that have been expressed by people who have suffered abuse of the most horrific form in the Defence Forces. It is incumbent on us to go back to the drawing board. If people who have experienced this abuse are telling us they have no trust or confidence in the manner in which that will be reviewed, there is absolutely no legitimacy in denying them that - none.

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