Brendan Howlin (Wexford, Labour) | Oireachtas source

I am happy to have an opportunity to speak, even briefly, on this Bill. Every member of the Labour Party and, I suspect, the vast majority of Members of the House have the gravest concerns about this type of legislation. If he was not in ministerial office, I believe the current Minister for Health would be among those voicing the concerns. In any normal circumstances we would not countenance laws such as this being brought before the House. However, we are not in normal circumstances. The priority of all Members is to ensure that we uphold the health and safety of the people who elected us to the House. That simple and overarching objective trumps many of our concerns.

Last night, we extended the restrictions we enacted, I believe unanimously, at the beginning of the pandemic because the threat to the lives as well as the health of citizens is at least as real now as it was six months ago. These are extraordinary powers. We are modifying some of them and supplementing others. The general principle with which I approach these matters is that rules without sanctions are simply advice. While advice is important, and the vast majority of people adhere to advice, there will be some who will not and put their fellow citizens at risk. Therefore, we must have the possibility of being able to ensure that the advice is implemented, and that must be by way of penal sanction. In the current circumstances, that is warranted.

However, we are on the threshold of going too far. I am happy with the approach to private dwellings, as Deputy Kelly mentioned. It would be a bridge too far to give An Garda Síochána the authority to enter private dwellings, which can only be done by way of warrant now. That would be unacceptable. Where there is an obvious disturbance taking place and a crowd potentially transmitting infection, the power to knock on the door and stop that is good. We will walk the road that far with the Minister.

I wish to make a general point to Members, the Leas-Cheann Comhairle and the Ceann Comhairle. I was struck by the news yesterday regarding the statement made by the President of the German Bundestag. Mr. Wolfgang Schäuble is somebody I worked with, and I would not often regard him as a defender of liberal values. However, he made a strong and urgent appeal to German members of parliament. He used the phrase, with which we are getting familiar in a different context, that German members of parliament must take control of Covid-19 legislation rather than rubber-stamp extensions of provisions put forward by the government. He said that any extension of powers and any trampling or diminution of the rights of citizens must be accompanied by clear explanations, justifications and timelines, because democracy requires that. Democracy is always tested most in a time of crisis. As we have seen in some jurisdictions, authoritarian governments use the backdrop of a pandemic as a crisis to restrict people's rights. We cannot fall into that trap, but I am fearful that the approach to this legislation has brought us on that path.

There should be the fullest debate possible about this law. Let us examine what happened this week. The schedule for yesterday and today was published on Wednesday. The Bill was published late Wednesday and early Thursday. There was limited or no time for consideration of amendments. There was no time at all for external consultation with concerned individuals, organisations or bodies, which we would usually consult. That is not right or acceptable. The 160 Deputies have been trusted by the people to be their watchdogs, the protectors of their rights and interests. We must not only do that, but be seen to do it. People must trust what we decide and the processes we use to decide. That is not happening with this legislation. It is not good enough. The notion that we have legislation that, in essence, simply transfers power to the Minister to make regulations is not good. There are volumes of judicial decisions relating to the limit of ministerial power to make legislation by statutory instrument. That is being tested in this legislation. It is not even good for the certainty the Minister requires for his actions because these are all ultimately subject to judicial oversight.

As Deputy Kelly said, we believe that, on balance, the real and present threat not only to the health and well-being but also to the lives of citizens is such that we must set aside those concerns to support the Bill today. Even if the combined Opposition voted against it, we still would not be able to overcome it. I wish to put a clear marker down for the Government. This is the last time this should happen. If we have to sit on Saturdays and Mondays, let us do that and have proper briefings so we have time to consult external affected bodies which normally give good advice on these matters. At the end of the day, we will be seen to do the job the people have set for us.

I will be raising this in the Dáil reform committee when it next meets, as I have indicated to the Ceann Comhairle. I hope the Ceann Comhairle and Leas-Cheann Comhairle will take a clear and strong stand on the fundamental right of Members of the House to have the time and capacity to do their job properly and effectively in the public interest. If we do not do that, we will ultimately erode people's confidence not only in the laws we enact, but also in these institutions.

I am privileged to have been a Member for quite some time. Crises have arisen. We needed to sit all night in the past on particular issues and sometimes they were not given sufficient time or the external scrutiny they required, but we cannot fall into that trap again. On the conclusion of the Second Stage debate, I wish to hear from the Minister for Health or the Minister for Justice and Equality that the process by which this Bill was brought to us was a mistake, that it will not happen again and that they will accept the requirement to bring the statutory instruments, once they are perfected, back here for debate so that we can be fully clear on what we are doing in order that legislation is properly enacted by the Oireachtas and that we are not simply here as some sort of rubber stamp that has transferred the power to make law to the Executive. That is not the way it is and that is not how the Constitution says it should be. I hope to hear those reassurances at the end of this debate.

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