Patrick O'Donovan (Limerick County, Fine Gael) | Oireachtas source

I thank Deputy Joan Collins for agreeing to reschedule this matter to today. It was picked on Thursday last and, because I was obliged to attend a funeral, it was postponed with the Deputy's consent.

I am taking this matter on behalf of my colleague, the Minister for Public Expenditure and Reform, Deputy Donohoe, and I will bring any points raised to his attention. I am aware that the issue has been a source of concern to supervisors for a long time. I am also aware that it has been raised here in the Dáil by successive Deputies to successive Ministers. The commitment, dedication and hard work of CE supervisors and assistant supervisors, who are employees of organisations in the community and voluntary sector, is greatly appreciated by the Government and all sides of the House.

The Department of Employment Affairs and Social Protection assumed responsibility for the CE programme from FÁS in January 2012. In July 2008, IMPACT and SIPTU brought a claim to the Labour Court seeking Exchequer-funded pension provision for community employment supervisors and assistant supervisors. The outcome was a Labour Court recommendation that FÁS, as the recognised funding agency, should fund the pension provision. In the context of this recommendation, the position has always been that neither FÁS nor the Department of Employment Affairs and Social Protection is the employer and it is not possible for the State to providing funding for such a scheme to employees of private companies even if those companies are, or were, reliant on State funding.

The community sector high-level forum, which was reinstated in 2015, includes representatives from Departments and statutory agencies and union representatives. The forum has since met on several occasions.

At a meeting in April 2017, the Department of Public Expenditure and Reform outlined its intention to conduct a detailed scoping exercise in order to comprehensively examine and assess the full potential implications of the issues that Deputy Joan Collins and others have raised. This scoping exercise was carried out with input from the Irish Government Economic and Evaluation Service, IGEES, on the potential costs of providing Exchequer support for the establishment of such a pension scheme for employees across the community and voluntary sector. The exercise clearly illustrated that the matter presents extremely difficult and significant issues for the Exchequer, with a potential cost to the State of €188 million per annum in respect of funding to enable an employer pension contribution in State-funded community and voluntary organisations, excluding any provision for immediate ex gratialump sum payment of pension as sought, which could, depending on the size of the sector, entail a further Exchequer cost of up to €318 million.

While the issue at hand relates to CE supervisors and assistant supervisor who, I recognise, feel aggrieved, these are a group within the wider community and voluntary sector. Any provision of funding for such a scheme in respect of employees could have a knock-on effect for other schemes. Therefore, the question of the pension provision for employees in the community and voluntary sector is one which is of relevance to a potentially large number of individuals far greater than those who, I know, are anxious in this sector.

Finally, it is worth noting that the issue has been dealt with by successive Ministers for Employment Affairs and Social Protection, Finance and Public Expenditure and Reform in three Governments since 2008. I will bring to the attention of the Minister the points that Deputy Joan Collins has raised and of which I have made note. If it would be of benefit for the Deputy to have a meeting with officials from the Department of Public Expenditure and Reform, I will arrange it.

See this speech in context