Seán Sherlock (Cork East, Labour) | Oireachtas source

First, I want to state our support for the Bill, on which I believe there is an emerging consensus. I acknowledge the role of the Minister of State, Deputy David Stanton, in seeking to push this agenda internally. His role has to be acknowledged, in particular his bona fides in regard to tackling the downside of gambling, and the need to regulate gambling has been well articulated.

We support the Bill. One could say that, to a certain extent, the Bill is limited but this is Second Stage and there is a long way to go before the Bill is finalised. I take on board the points made by the Minister of State and by the originators of the Bill, Deputies Jack Chambers and Anne Rabbitte, and I acknowledge their work on this. For example, there are issues around technology, in particular how the Bill will legislate for the constant movements and shifts in technology. Let us suppose there is a well-known betting outfit based in Gibraltar, or somewhere offshore, and it has a presence onshore in Ireland. If one subscribes to its app, there is evidence it can provide differential odds between different users. The use of algorithms and technology means there is such fluidity built into the system that it can prove difficult to find some sort of legislative scrutiny or regulatory scrutiny that keeps the State ahead of the curve of where movements and trends are in regard to the gambling industry. There are big challenges ahead for the legislation in that regard, although there is a clear political willingness to seek to address that. If there is proper and robust engagement with the stakeholders, I believe it can be achieved.

I have had some meetings with the Gaming and Leisure Association of Ireland - I think we have all been approached by it to some extent - and it tell us it welcomes the legislation. It states that in creating a regulated industry and requiring all operators to be licensed, the Government could establish control over who is operating gambling in Ireland. It also states that, pivotally, such a process would ensure that only those who have been deemed personally fit to operate and proven tax compliant would be permitted to engage in the provision of gambling services, driving criminality and the black market economy out of the industry. That is a wonderful aspiration and we would all agree with it, but there is a massive challenge to that.

I mentioned I had meetings with the Gaming and Leisure Association of Ireland if only to articulate the fact the gaming and leisure sector would seek to be regulated. If I was a cynic, I might say the reality is that members' clubs are in fact proprietary clubs run by owners as profitable commercial operations. We know that concerns were expressed ten years ago in a report to Government on casinos that the provision of casino-style games in these clubs should be a matter of concern, given the provision of such games was entirely contrary to the intentions of the 1956 Act and that there was no regulation of their activities. That was ten years ago and we might argue that there is such a proliferation of them now that there is a broad acceptance of them and it is a case of just saying, "Ah well, let us do our best to regulate them".

If the sector is calling for regulation, we accept its bona fides in that regard. The question is how the legislation will deal with the advances in technology and whether it can provide support for the people who have spoken so passionately about this, like Davy Glennon, who describes a win as "only a loan to give back to the bookies". There are people standing up in society who are very brave and to whom we have a duty of care. The challenge is whether we can legislate in a way that ensures we support people like Davy Glennon. I do not want to patronise Mr. Glennon as I do not know the man from Adam but, given his courage in coming forward, we need to meet what he is saying with clear and robust legislation.

While we have a long way to go, at least this is a starting point. I congratulate Fianna Fáil for bringing this forward and congratulate the Government for accepting the bona fides of the Bill. I believe we will have much discourse throughout the various stages of this Bill to try to get it right, so we can speak for the type of people who Davy Glennon has spoken for, and for Davy Glennon himself, as one example, and that we endeavour to do our best on this issue.

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