David Cullinane (Waterford, Sinn Fein) | Oireachtas source

I commend the Bill's authors on introducing it and giving us an opportunity to have a debate on gambling and more importantly to move the legislation forward.

I wish to unpick the last two paragraphs of the Minister of State's opening speech. They are very telling and paint a picture of a Government that is not really committed to this and does not believe it will happen anytime soon. He said:

I would be happy to receive realistic proposals from Deputies that would contribute to the updating of the 2013 general scheme [for a gambling control Bill] and bring about as soon as possible the development of modern and effective legislation.

The Bill before us is essentially a carbon copy of a Bill that was introduced by the Government in the first place. Therefore there is no reason not to support it. Is the Minister of State saying the proposals in the Bill introduced by the former Minister, Mr. Shatter, are not realistic? Is he saying that Bill does not deliver what he called "the development of modern and effective legislation"? In any event even if he had concerns about any aspect of the Bill, which would be bizarre given that his party introduced the Bill in the first place, these issues can be dealt with on Committee Stage. That is why his saying he would be happy to receive realistic proposals almost gives the impression that the delay is not on the Government side but because it is not getting co-operation from the Opposition, which is not the case.

The Minister of State went on to say:

New modern gambling legislation, in conjunction with independent regulation, offers the best route to enhanced consumer protection, to increased Exchequer revenue from the industry and to the development of a full range of treatment and mediation methods to address problem gambling by those agencies competent in this area.

There is no quarrel from the Opposition on that. In reality this is an issue of political will. If the political will exists, we can get legislation passed. With the political will we can scrutinise this on Committee Stage to look at the areas of concern either from the Opposition or Government.

What does it mean when the Minister of State says "as soon as possible"? The previous Bill was proposed in 2013 which is five years ago. Five years is a long time for a Bill to remain, as many Bills are, in a queue waiting to be advanced by the Government.

We all know that gambling is a very serious issue. I do not need to remind the Minister or anybody else in the House of the devastation it can cause for individuals and families. Some people lose everything. Their bank accounts could be emptied. They could lose their homes. Many people have separated and have lost relationships because of gambling.

It is far too easy. With mobile apps people can bet on the same race on multiple accounts. There was a time with betting that once a horse race started, that was it. If someone did not get in, they would often talk about all the bets they did not put on and all the losses they had because they did not bet. Now it is possible to bet on a race even after it starts. The same is true of a football match or a soccer match. I watched the World Snooker Championship final over the weekend. Even the commentators were giving updates on the changing odds. Once the game got a bit closer the odds changed and people were betting frame-by-frame. The same is happening in every sport. It is far too easy to bet.

I understand that a balance needs to be struck between the public good and people's individual rights. Some people would make the individual freedom argument that if that is what somebody wants to do, they should be allowed to do it. As legislators, we have a job to ensure that the public good is also protected. Sometimes we protect people from themselves because it is not just those individuals who suffer; other people suffer. The State can suffer if people eventually get mental health problems and need to be supported. Their families suffer and there are all sorts of consequences. It is not a victimless act and is not solely contained to the person who is the gambler. I understand about the balancing of rights here, but I do not believe we have that balance right and we need a regulator.

Recently the Regulator of the National Lottery appeared before the Joint Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach. A huge number of scratch cards costing €5, €10 or €20 are being sold. There is an issue in that we are making it far too easy to gamble even with scratch cards. I know of many people who buy multiple scratch cards. It was grand when they cost €1 or €2; it is very difficult to walk into a shop and ask for 50 scratch cards at €2. However, it is less of a problem to order five of them at €10. I have a real difficulty with that.

There is a considerable amount in this Bill, which is a very good Bill. It has given us a good opportunity to discuss the matter. Obviously we have some concerns about it, but let us address those on Committee Stage. If the will exists across the House, we can deliver a Bill within weeks or months. I am delighted the Minister of State is on board and that we have his personal support, but we need the support of the Government.

This needs to be prioritised. Let us get a Bill through the House and let us put the regulations and safeguards in place. Let us make sure that people have an individual right to gamble but also that we have all the appropriate protections, oversight and regulation in place to protect all citizens in this State.

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