Alan Kelly (Tipperary, Labour) | Oireachtas source

I very much welcome the Bill. It has been a long time coming and I might talk later about how we got here. The Labour Party will broadly be supporting the Bill. There are a couple of issues that need to be further explained, particularly to the public and those who work in the industry, and a couple of tweaks that may be possible.

I want to acknowledge those who have worked on this Bill in the past, including the former Minister, Mr. Alex White, and, in particular, the former Minister of State, Deputy Corcoran Kennedy, who put a lot of work into it and did not get much thanks for her efforts. It is possible that if she did not have the job of bringing in this Bill, she might still be sitting in the second row of Ministers across the Chamber. I want to acknowledge her role because she fought very hard for this.

As I said, I am broadly in support of this Bill for the obvious reasons that everyone in the House has spoken about. We have a serious problem with alcohol in this country. Ireland is the fourth heaviest drinking nation in the OECD in terms of quantity of pure alcohol consumed. We have a serious problem with binge drinking and we can see this all around us in our everyday lives. People are now nearly consuming more alcohol at pre-drinks gatherings than they do when they go out for drinks.

We can see it all around us, including in colleges, but it goes beyond that. Often when people meet in houses before going out, they consume more than when they actually go out.

It is causing real issues. We know about the health issues it causes and I emphasise the mental health issues. The long-term impact on mental health as a result of abuse of alcohol is seismic. Other long-term impacts include diseases, including liver disease in particular. It is a great cost to the State. The level of deaths attributable to this issue is beyond debate. It is a fact. As a country we need to wake up and deal with this issue in a real way. This Bill is a significant contribution to doing so.

As Labour's health spokesperson, I know that I could find many different ways of spending the level of funding that goes on dealing with health issues caused by alcohol misuse. I have spoken to many emergency department workers, nurses, doctors and even managers of various hospitals, who have told me of the amount of time and funding that goes on this and the chaos that it creates, especially at night, as a consequence of accidents or other alcohol-induced injuries or health failures. Our emergency departments are being clogged up as a result. It also causes serious domestic and social issues. We need to deal with this and do so quickly for future generations.

I am conscious that this Bill is being brought in to help future generations. As the father of six and seven year old children, I am very conscious of that. I am concerned by children's exposure to alcohol. I have a daughter who is fanatical about the GAA and with a father from Tipperary and a mother from Kerry, she is interested in matches and goes to Croke Park quite often. The Minister of State's native county is improving but he would not be there as often as I am. I have spoken about this in the past. I have become very conscious of being surrounded by alcohol advertising and alcohol itself and imagery of it, which is not something I was conscious of in the way I am now, as I bring children to matches and so on.

We need to do this work to ensure that future generations are protected, that they are socialised around alcohol in a respectful way, that in later years they understand what alcohol is about, and that their first interaction with alcohol is not about drunkenness but about people socialising and enjoying themselves. The principle is not about getting drunk but people interacting and socialising.

I have heard many contributions outside of this House. I will return to the matter of lobbying on this issue later. It has been argued that this legislation is a push towards bringing in legislation that would be akin to having a nanny state. It is anything but that. It is progressive, positive legislation. There are issues I seek to have dealt with in the Bill but in principle, it is good legislation. Our country must adapt to the circumstances in which we find ourselves. Ultimately it is a public safety issue.

We cannot abdicate responsibility and we need to deal with the issue. I mentioned social issues earlier. I have been very taken by radio advertisements I have heard recently, which feature a mother and father who cannot get out of bed on a Saturday morning, having previously promised their children that they would take them to the park. People have mentioned it to me. It is a true story that happens in every town and county in Ireland each weekend, whether it is Saturday or Sunday mornings. I dare say it probably happens often during the week too. It reflects the social impact of alcohol abuse on people.

As for the changes to be brought about by the Bill, I welcome the lead-in times for the various components. It is important in allowing the industry to adapt to the measures. I have a query about the HSE role in giving evidence in the granting of renewal of licence or granting licences and would like the Minister of State to explain this in greater detail. Clearly it is about giving an opinion on whether a licence should be renewed but I would like more detail on the emphasis on this and why this has been chosen.

On labelling, this obviously is one of the most contentious issues and is one with which we must deal. There was considerable emphasis on it during the Seanad debate on the Bill. Undoubtedly, we will have to have health labelling and I welcome this, and the areas that it will cover. I will sound a word of caution, however, not merely regarding the size of labels, and so on. It will have a particular impact on the smaller producers such as craft brewers here and this should be borne in mind. As someone who is sponsoring other legislation to support them as a growing indigenous industry nationwide, it would not appropriate for me to speak without raising that. There is a big difference between the cost to a small craft brewer and to Diageo. Obviously, alcohol is alcohol and it does the same damage regardless of whoever produces it. Nevertheless, it is something that ought to be dealt with.

The Minister of State should work in parallel with our European colleagues on the pan-European progress that has been made, at European Council and European Parliament levels, on the approach to labelling and health warnings across alcohol products in the EU. I say this for genuine reasons. I was a Member of the European Parliament for two years. It was being discussed when I was there in 2009 and it is still being discussed. I am concerned that we need to do that in parallel with what is being done in this Bill because I am not sure whether this legislation will cut the mustard in terms of European law. We must undertake a process and there will be a pre-warning for six months. I want to make sure that one way or another, that labelling will be in place at a European level. Unfortunately, my reading of this measure leaves me unconvinced that it will go through as smoothly at a European level as some believe.

I include that as a word of caution in order to emphasise that there needs to be a parallel process at a European level to look at this.

I have been an advocate of minimum unit pricing for a long time. I have to say I have heard some amount of rubbish from some in the industry stating that this will change the price of certain products. The issue here is to deal with the cheap products that are causing damage all over the country - one can find the bottles and cans dispatched across parks and fields in both urban and rural locations around the country. I appreciate the examples that have been given by the Minister. I agree 100% with him on what is being proposed. Drinking in a controlled environment, as far as I am concerned, is the best option and the more we can change the manner in which people consume alcohol from an uncontrolled environment to a controlled environment, the better. It is the right way to go. If we have to move on this minimum unit pricing again after it is implemented in order to push it in that direction, I believe we should do so. Ultimately, the way in which alcohol is being consumed, because of the pricing differential, is a real issue.

I also note in the Bill the prohibition on changing the prices in a period of time, in other words, having happy hours and then resuming normal pricing. I ask the officials here to look positively at a further change to that, and it is to do with an element of competition here. I believe the Minister is correct in getting rid of happy hours and other forms of promotion, such as those that would allow two for one, but if one goes down to Temple Bar on a Thursday, Friday or Saturday, one will also encounter the practice where the price of a pint goes from, dare I say it, €6.20 to, an hour later, €7.20, and an hour later again it could be €8.20. As part of this process, I believe there is a way in which the price of a drink sold in a premises within 24 hours, or some defined period in legislation, cannot change. It is a way of dealing with what is obviously a competitive issue as well.

When it comes to advertising at sporting events and advertising in general, I very much welcome the changes that are being brought about. I have spoken previously about the impact of advertising at sporting events. I love sports and I played rugby for years. When I talk, it is still not the European champions cup. It is the Heineken Cup in my head and dare I say among most supporters who are in my case fanatical about Munster. That shows the impact it has. It becomes ingrained. Personally, I cannot stand Heineken. I would never drink it but that is not the issue. I still call it the Heineken Cup. Therefore I very much welcome the changes that are being brought about here. There is also a practical issue here in relation to local advertising. Whether it be the local pub, gastro-pub or whatever premises that sells alcohol, it needs to be facilitated and is so through this legislation.

In relation to the display issue which was so fraught in the Seanad, I believe the three options that have been brought about through much negotiation are good and deal with this issue. That was necessary and had to be brought about. I very much welcome them.

In relation to the advertising thresholds as regards broadcasting, I note the distinction between television and radio. I ask the Minister to respond as regards why that distinction is there, particularly in the case of radio. I understand the volume of times that children listen to radio or watch television has been agreed with broadcasters but there are also summer holidays and all such types of changes. I would welcome more information on that. I very much welcome the prohibition of advertisements in certain places, such as open spaces and public parks, but I question how it will be monitored to ensure it will work.

When it comes to selling alcohol from off-licences, a real issue which is worthy of further discussion is one of manner and scale - dare I say it is particularly young people but not confined to them. They can go into off-licences and buy huge volumes of alcohol. One will see them coming out with their three or four slabs of whatever. I probably do not favour us having a discussion about age limits here but I am open to a discussion on increasing the age limit or whether we must have a situation where persons of a certain age are only allowed purchase a certain amount of alcohol in an off-licence. Frankly, we all know what is happening. The 18 year old is going in, getting the slabs of alcohol and dishing them out to those who are under age. One can see it around the place. I believe that is an issue that needs to be looked at in some way in the future because it is happening in front of our eyes every day of the week.

I am not one of those who places much meas on large-scale lobbying but when it comes to this Bill, the volume of lobbying that has come across the desks of all of us has been considerable. I am the type of person who generally reacts the opposite way if I feel that a certain amount of the lobbying has been excessive and in this instance I believe that to be the case. Obviously, the drinks industry is such a large industry. It is an industry that employs many. As a Member who is bringing legislation through the Houses to support small brewers, I believe it is an industry that deserves support. However, it is also an industry that has to be responsible, that has to accept facts and that has to listen. I believe those are lessons that the industry would very much need to heed.

It is also an industry which needs to be assessed for its adherence to competition law and this is something that I will return to in this House. There are certain issues within the industry as to the way certain large-scale alcohol manufacturers, such as breweries, are behaving from the point of view of competition law that need to be brought out into the open and discussed more freely. It has a distorting effect when it comes to sales, when it comes to the capacity to advertise and, obviously, when it comes to their influence on consumers, in particular younger people, and by extension the volume of alcohol that is being consumed in our country. Certainly, there are lessons to be learned from that.

I very much welcome this Bill. I have spoken on elements of it previously, in the Joint Committee on Health and in other fora. There are a number of issues that I have raised on which I would appreciate a response from the Minister. I raised issues relating to labelling. Who is responsible for labelling when product is being sold and exported? Is it the retailer? Is it the wholesaler? When product is being imported, who is responsible for the labelling that will be put on products? I have asked specific questions and I would appreciate, in his own time, the Minister coming back to me.

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