Leo Varadkar (Dublin West, Fine Gael) | Oireachtas source

I will start from the top. The rights of transgender citizens did not come up as a specific issue. While it did not arise, it may of course be possible to discuss it at a future meeting or bilaterally at meetings that will occur between the Minister for Education and Skills and the Catholic Church.

The issue of patronage and divestment was discussed. The Government expressed the view that it would like to see more divestment occurring but that our principal interest involves taking into the account the views of parents and that the most important thing is that divestment should only occur where the parents and prospective parents of children attending those schools want it to occur.

In the context of the eighth amendment, the Catholic Church gave its view and its view is very clear - I respect its view, which is that the eighth amendment has saved lives, that this is a matter of human rights and that it will oppose any attempt to remove the provision from the Constitution. That is the church's stated view. As a Government, we said that we respect that this is its view and that we understand this to be the case. We also indicated that it is our intention to proceed on the basis of the Constitutional Convention's recommendation that there should be a referendum on the matter and that we will be guided by the outcome of the all-party committee as to what should be wording of the question.

On the Pope's visit, the date for the World Meeting of Families is 21 to 26 August 2018. We do not yet know the specific date or dates on which the Holy Father will be in the country and no decision has been made on whether he will travel to the North. However, I did express my wish that he would consider doing so. Unfortunately, when he visited Ireland, Pope John Paul II was not able to travel to the North and made his plea for peace from Dublin. I certainly would like to see that happen. We indicated to the church authorities that the State will do its best to facilitate any programme that he wants to engage in - in any part of Ireland - and that it will put at his disposal the necessary support from the security forces and other groups that might be able to assist in accommodating his visit.

Deputy Micheál Martin is absolutely correct; the holding of referendums is not a decision for Government, it is one for the Oireachtas. It is only the Oireachtas that can make a decision to hold a referendum. What the Government did today was put out a timeline to work towards. People know that some of these referendums are in the pipeline for years and the Government thought it appropriate to set out a timeline that we can work towards because it is not just a case of having a referendum. One has to work back from a referendum. First, there needs to be a wording, the legislation, which must go through the Dáil and Seanad, has to be brought forward and a referendum commission must be established. There is a minimum period during which a referendum commission can be established and there is also a need to provide a period of at least three or four weeks for a campaign. It takes time to have referendums. Assuming that the all-party committee is able to report by 20 December - I am confident it can do so - the earliest possible time at which a referendum could be held would be May or June 2018 as a result of the need to have legislation passed by the two Houses, to facilitate the establishment of the referendum commission and to hold a campaign. I did not quite understand what Deputies said but if they are suggesting a different date I would be curious to know what that is. Obviously, the referendum could not be held earlier than May or June 2018. If, therefore, people are suggesting a later date, I would certainly be interested to find out if that is the case and to understand why.

Redress was one of the topics discussed. The view expressed by the Government is that we would like to see the matter concluded. We would like to see a financial settlement that would involve the payment of many millions of euro to the taxpayer to help us cover the cost of compensation.

Deputy Micheál Martin asked about a referendum day. We decided not to do that. It had been proposed in the past to have six, seven or eight referendums on the one day but the Government has formed the opinion that having so many questions on the one day could cause confusion. We decided that the referendum relating to what is probably the most sensitive and controversial issue - namely, the eighth amendment - should be held on a stand-alone basis but that the others, which, perhaps, relate to matters that are a little less controversial, could be held in batches of two or three. The latter has been done previously.

In terms of international issues, it is important to point out that this was a dialogue with the Catholic Church, not the hierarchy, so other people were present as well. It was not just bishops. Among those present were representatives from Trócaire, an agency which, as Members know, does phenomenal work in terms of international development around the world and which receives substantial funding. Needless to say, part of the discussion was a request that we increase the budget for Catholic organisations such as Trócaire and that for overseas development aid in the years to come.

The issue of Education and Training Boards Ireland and community national schools did not arise specifically and the issue that arose in recent days was not on the agenda at the time.

I found the meeting to be very useful. It went on for approximately two hours. It was a very good engagement, with lots of areas of agreement and disagreement. I agree with Members that such a dialogue is appropriate. There will be another meeting but next on the list is a dialogue with the Church of Ireland and the other Protestant denominations. We are trying to schedule a time for that now.

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