Éamon Ó Cuív (Galway West, Fianna Fail) | Oireachtas source

I listened with interest to Deputy Peadar Tóibín. I also listened to the Minister's explanation as to why he could not accept my amendment. Deputy Peadar Tóibín said it was impractical to have a delay. This is different from what happens in the HSE. I have been extremely critical of the constant changes in management, structures and so forth that take place in the HSE because the same managers are not left in the same place. However, what I am proposing does not involve any of that. When the name of the Department changed from the Department of Community, Rural and Gaeltacht Affairs to the Department of Arts, Heritage, Regional, Rural and Gaeltacht Affairs, it did not make any difference from a management point of view. As the Ministers of State, Deputies Seán Kyne and Joe McHugh, know, all of the staff dealing with the islands and the Gaeltacht are located in the office in Na Forbacha under the stiúthóir Aodháin Mac Cormaic, fear an-bhreá. If one were to move it from one Department to another, it would simply be moved, including the few staff in Gaoth Dobhair. There is nobody left in County Kerry, unfortunately, which is a terrible tragedy. The Department with responsibility for the Gaeltacht used to have an office in Tralee to serve the Gaeltachts in counties Kerry, Cork and Waterford, but it was closed. However, such offices would simply be transferred and the only difference one would see is that there would be a different Secretary General - there would be a different Secretary General because they change all the time - and a different Minister. In this case, there would not be a different Minister because the Taoiseach would simply state the Minister of State, Deputy Joe McHugh, would now be Minister of State at Roinn an Taoisigh, the Chief Whip and the Minister of State at the Department with responsibility for rural, community and Gaeltacht development. That is all that would have to be done.

Of course, there would be new delegated functions, but this is done all the time. It would not be a big deal. The Minister, Deputy Heather Humphreys, would have to make a minor adjustment to her title, but that would make it easier to say it. Adjustments to ministerial titles happen all the time. I believe they happen too frequently and unnecessarily. We did it too and I often wondered if it was worthwhile. It was not very expensive to do it, but such adjustments were a nuisance. People get used to calling something by whatever it is called and just when they are getting used to a new name, it changes and becomes an acronym and so forth. However, there would be no practical difficulty if one knows, as I do in this case, the reality of the structures we are discussing and how simple it would be. The arguments the Minister makes do not hold water.

The 20,000 native speakers in the Gaeltacht were mentioned. The number had risen in the inter-census period between 2006 and 2011, but it dropped quite significantly throughout the country from 2011. In addition, the number of people who said they knew Irish dropped. One has to look to Government policies for the reason that happened. From a linguistic point of view and considering the small size of the Gaeltachts, the reality is that the Gaeltacht has been amazingly resilient. Professor Brian Ó Cuív carried out an accurate and deep analysis of the figures in 1950. He wrote some papers that were published in a booklet entitled, Irish Dialects and Irish-Speaking Districts. It was probably the first attempt to establish what the figures were. Until then people were asked in the census if they knew Irish. That gives a figure for the number who say they know Irish but not for the number who speak it every day.

He had a complicated, comprehensive and detailed way of analysing how many people in the Gaeltacht were speaking Irish. Based on the 1948 census, he arrived at a figure of between 30,000 and 33,000 in 1950. When one considers the widespread emigration from rural areas in the 1950s and socio-economic changes such as people moving into the Gaeltacht for reasons of marriage and so on, it is amazing from a linguistic point of view and a credit to the State that these pócaí beaga - all the Gaeltacht areas are small, isolated pockets, even the Connemara Gaeltacht - have survived.

Deputy Tóibín stated he is in a hurry to get the Department up and running as otherwise nothing will happen. Again, the Deputy does not understand the structure of government here. Unlike in the northern part of our country, every section of every Department is under some Minister every day of the year, even in interregnum periods. This is not only a question of money, but also one of powers and function. That is what I am fighting about, although money obviously goes with powers and functions. If a decision was taken to delay this change with a view to having a proper Department established and the Minister were to hold out for the proper price, as one would do at a fair - we are talking a great deal about cows tonight - the two existing Departments with responsibilities would, in the meantime, have an obligation to ensure progress was made as quickly as possible. As a Cabinet Minister, the Minister would also have an input into both Departments. In the arrangement I am suggesting, the Minister of State, Deputy McHugh, would transfer with the Department and could bang away as good as ever in the existing Department until the function was transferred.

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