Mattie McGrath (Tipperary, Independent) | Oireachtas source

I, too, am delighted to be able to speak about this issue on behalf of the Rural Independent Group.

I welcome many aspects of the Minister's statement. I welcome her being new, impartial and independent. Somebody else referred to a member of the Cabinet. We have seen where the Minister has stood out and maintained her dignity and respect and decided to tell it as it is, as she sees it. She is a breath of fresh air. Her trademark is all over many aspects of this issue, which is welcome because we need proper justice and a recognition of what happened. I, too, welcome Ms Corless, the survivors and others who are present. We cannot imagine what it was like to live in their shoes. It is unbelievable. The Minister has been independent and followed through. That she visited Tuam is also welcome. I hope she will receive the resources that she needs from the Government and the Department of Finance. They have to be provided.

I am delighted to hear that the Minister is bringing in an international expert to head up the inquiry. That is vital because too many times in this country - even now - every time we have a problem or there is an issue, we opt for a retired judge or someone like them. I have said several times that we will soon run out of retired judges and that we will have to include it on the CAO forms to enable students to become retired judges in order that all of the inquiries can be undertaken. It is farcical and I am not making light of it. We need someone who is qualified, has the required expertise and a track record and, above all, is truly and totally independent and cannot be got at by the system which is very good at covering up and ensuring limited information comes out. I welcome the aspects of the Minister's speech where she said full information must be given. That is very important. Everybody has to put the information together. That is vital, instead of there being leaks and a pre-release of information which is hurtful and damaging to the people about whom we are talking, the survivors and their families.

It is welcome that a Bill is to be brought forward to enable people to trace, find and mark graves and so on. That is very important and we look forward to debating the Bill.

The Minister has stated the initial report will be out by the end of June and the full report by the autumn. That is important because we need clarity, a conclusion and action. As I said, it is horrific to think body parts might have been used for medical research - what an unbelievable carry-on.

Somebody mentioned an amnesty for persons who provided information for the report. That would be good. I am not saying anyone should hold on to anything, but one never knows what inhibitions people might have. An amnesty would be good to encourage people to come forward with information, both those working in this area and others outside. If they did not believe they would be victimised, as has happened recently in the case of some whistleblowers, having an amnesty might be very good.

As I said in my remarks previously, our hearts have been touched by the thought that so many children ended their lives in an environment in which they may have neglected or abandoned when they were most in need of help. There is no defending or excusing what is absolutely indefensible. It is a source of shame that so many of the nation's children died in this way and continue to die as a result of various forms of abuse. The State was complicit in the deaths and maltreatment of the children concerned and their families. It is not yesterday's problem either. It is not a problem we have left behind and it could not be more evident than in the damning report issued this week by Dr. Geoffrey Shannon on Tusla, an issue I had raised in the House. We continue to practise, with horrifying regularity, the betrayal of children and their families, in spite of holding the children's rights referendum and in spite of all of the information and knowledge we now possess. We are supposed to be outward-looking rather than inward-looking. It is only five years since a report reviewed the deaths of almost 200 children who had died either in the care of the State or who were known to have used the State's care services between 2002 and 2012. That is recent and it was a shocking indictment to receive the report from Dr. Geoffrey Shannon during the week. It is both mind-boggling and astonishing, to say the least. What happened in Tuam horrifies us and causes us dismay and bewilderment. How could there have been such practices? Where was the accountability? Where is it now, for that matter? Has anyone in the HSE or Tusla been held responsible for the neglect that led to 112 unnatural deaths of children between 2002 and 2012? How could that have happened? Has anybody been held accountable? The answer is no. That is only the most recent incident.

To fast forward, in parts of her speech the Minister asked what would be shown on "Reeling in the Years" in 2040. What will be thought of us because of what happened from 2002 to 2012? What will be thought of the report we received this week? It is shocking.

On the specific requests made for a truth commission, I can certainly see merit in establishing such a commission. I read about the experts the Minister has appointed. It is welcome that they have expertise abroad because this is too small a country. I have said in the case of the banks and many other areas that the country is just too small, that everybody knows or can get to everybody else. I do not know what makes us do this, but it is crass and seems to be endemic. We cover up. Institutions become defensive and protecting the institution becomes more important than protecting defenceless little children. Protection of the institutions might become more important rather than justice for the people who are in the Visitors Gallery. I passionately believe this as we have become good at it, with PR companies, consultants and everybody else making it a big, defended, untouchable and unbreakable chain that we cannot unwind. We cannot get down and dirty to get to the real truth which people want.

I tabled a parliamentary question to the Minister only two months ago and thank her for her answer. I was shocked to find that, according to information provided by the Department, in 2013, 2014 and 2015 almost 20,000 children each year - that is 60,000 - had suffered from three forms of abuse - sexual, physical or malnutrition. I do not have the figures for 2016, but I do not expect them to be much different. In that wonderful year we celebrated and commemorated the centenary of the 1916 Rising. What is going on, despite all of the agencies we have established and the legislation we have passed? We cannot blame the church. I am not defending its role in all of the horrific things that happened, but I want an answer to that question. It happened under our noses.

Somebody else will be standing here in ten years' time looking for inquiries into 2013, 2014, 2015, 2016 or this year because there is too much going unnoticed and there are too many resources being pumped into organisations, such as Tusla, which are not fit for purpose. Such quangos set up headquarters, appoint CEOs and appoint a plethora of senior officials and they forget the responsibility of us all must be to protect the innocent child. They seem to lose their way. There are many good staff there too, do not get me wrong. However, there is an epidemic in this country of creating quango after quango. They lose sight of why they were set up and of what they are meant to do. They talk about things and have reports but where are they? We need to unmask and deal with this.

I could not let the opportunity go without challenging Deputies Ruth Coppinger and Bríd Smith because they want to blame the Catholic Church every time. We all know of the wrongs in the Catholic Church but many of us would not have been educated without it. Deputy Bríd Smith said she was educated by the nuns. Few of us would have been educated if it were not for the brothers and the nuns. I did not get that education, but many of my colleagues and peers did. Tremendous good work was done also. We cannot just throw the baby out with the bath water. I agree we must deal with the horrific past and those legacy issues. However, one of the organisations I worked with is the Aislinn Adolescent Addiction Treatment Centre, with a wonderful sister, Sr. Veronica Mangan. What a leader to set up that centre. At one time, it was for adolescents from 12 to 16 years who had drug and alcohol problems. Now it is down to those aged seven and eight years. I commend the visionary work it and so many others, including Sr. Stan, have done. One could name so many. One cannot just constantly bash, kick and blame them. The furore about the hospital was the same - just bash the nuns and the media love it. They deserve credit for what they did as well. Certainly, the bad ones deserve to be criticised but the good people should not be criticised because they have been champions in many areas and they did not do it just to protect the Catholic Church. They did it out of goodness and they feed the hungry and clothed the poor. They still do it in this city on a daily basis and there is no talk of it. We must have balance.

I wish the Minister well in this and wish the panel she has appointed the very best. I hope we will get to the truth and get some solace for the people.

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