Micheál Martin (Cork South Central, Fianna Fail) | Oireachtas source

I thank the Taoiseach for his reply. It is an extraordinary situation that since the Taoiseach got that wallop two years ago from the electorate, he has been extremely lacking in terms of bringing forward any substantial reform to how Seanad Éireann works, how people are elected to it and the work it does. We met the Taoiseach on this issue last July and while I do not want to upset the Taoiseach, it was one of the most farcical meetings I ever attended in terms of the Taoiseach's lack of any notion of what he wanted to do himself. He had the independent report and put it on the table and asked us for our opinions but had no real opinion himself. It then emerged during the meeting that the Government had no position on the independent report. The Minister for Communications, Energy and Natural Resources, Deputy Alex White, who was representing the Tánaiste, said the Government had not even considered it, yet the Government was asking the Opposition for commitments on specific aspects of it. At the end of the meeting, we asked the Taoiseach whether he would support the elements of the independent report that referred to direct franchise for citizens having a say in electing Senators. He demurred at that and eventually Deputy Ross put it to him that he was up for anything. The Taoiseach used the phrase that he would "consider anything".

The meeting was very incoherent and many of us left it scratching our heads because it was clear to us that neither the Taoiseach nor any member of the Government knew what they were doing with regard to the Seanad or the independent report the Taoiseach had commissioned. The members of the independent group who produced the report were busy lobbying everybody and felt they had got the green light from the Government and were encouraging the Opposition to play ball and agree with the recommendations made, although we would not have been entirely happy with all of the recommendations, particularly some of those to do with the compromise in regard to the direct franchise rather than the better solution that was produced here in legislation, both before and after the last referendum.

I understand from what the Taoiseach has said today that the legislation concerning the university panels will not now be finalised before the next election, although he committed to bringing it forward at that meeting. He has said today that it will be published in 2016. Will he confirm that means it will not be introduced before the general election, but that it will be left to a new government to implement it? Is it clear where the Taoiseach stands on this issue? Will he indicate whether he supports all of the recommendations of the independent working group he established, particularly in regard to the direct franchise and allowing citizens have a say in electing Senators?

This goes to the heart of the democratic revolution we were promised but never got from the Government. The people rejected the Taoiseach's proposition to abolish the Seanad, which he only thought up before the last general election to try to gain some momentum for his party. Most of the Taoiseach's party did not agree with the proposal but he went ahead with it. The public said "No" and the reason for that was that they valued alternative voices in democracy and valued debate.

They value of the idea of politicians having a platform and capacity to articulate ideas about society and about how things should evolve. The Seanad has played that role in spite of all of its challenges and difficulties. It has been a platform for alternative voices down through the years, from party-affiliated Members, as well as Independents. The people did not want to suppress that voice, even though the Taoiseach wanted them to do so.

The Taoiseach's failure on the Seanad is evident, particularly since his commitment to the party leaders following the independent review group. Nothing has happened. We have not been called into any meeting. There are about two weeks to go in this session, yet he throws out in his reply that he intends to have the debate before the end of the session. There are so many things supposed to happen before the end of this session that I am getting dizzy. There are letters coming from Ministers wanting to rush through emergency legislation and so on. There are a load of guillotines lined up for next week. The Chief Whip contacted me this morning to say he wishes to guillotine five or six Bills. That goes to the heart of democratic revolution.

The Taoiseach's reluctance to engage in proper debate on these issues, or to facilitate a genuine parliamentary democracy, is at the heart of it. Since he got the wallop when the people said no to the abolition of the Seanad he has thrown his hat at it and does not seem to want to progress any reforms, despite the fact that every Opposition party told him they would co-operate with the legislation. The Taoiseach was asked a direct question about it at the meeting but he did not answer. We do not know where he stands.

I received an invitation and I am sure the Taoiseach also did, to take part in the general election debate on TV3. I am prepared to do that but he is not. He has laughed. His view is that if he avoids those debates it is better. The public and the younger generation think that politicians should debate issues in the Dáil and Seanad Éireann, and that we should allow alternative voices to have their say. The Taoiseach belongs to a sort of cute hoor form of politics that says the more one ducks and dives, the less----

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