Micheál Martin (Cork South Central, Fianna Fail) | Oireachtas source

I note the Taoiseach's reply states that records are kept where judged appropriate, which is an interesting phrase. It would seem to suggest that there is wriggle room for him and others to decide the taking of minutes may not be appropriate.

In his constant drive to avoid being accountable, the Taoiseach has, of course, refused to answer detailed questions in the House about his role in the departure of the former Garda Commissioner. Central to the evidence heard by Mr. Justice Fennelly is that not only did he not keep minutes of his discussions, he did not even record a decision, in particular a crucial meeting at which the Taoiseach was present along with the Secretary General of his Department, the Secretary General of the Department of Justice and Equality, the Minister for Justice and Equality and the Attorney General. A serious decision was taken at that meeting to send the Secretary General of the Department of Justice and Equality to the Commissioner's house with a message that the Taoiseach may not have confidence in him the following morning. The judge is absolutely scathing of the fact that there is no record or minutes of the meeting or of the decision taken. No one took minutes of the discussions. I suggest that is how one can end up with the situation whereby the majority of those present at the meeting end up disagreeing with the Taoiseach's evidence. One person went as far as to describe the Taoiseach's story as a fantasy.

The Taoiseach's failure to keep a single record of what he admits were a gravely serious set of meetings goes 100% against the statement he has just made and he has repeatedly made during Question Time over the past four years. He said to me that under him every meeting would be minuted, even if he was talking to a constituency delegation. He used a colourful phrase at one stage. A delegation from a constituency came to speak to him, during which he thumped the table and he said even that was recorded. He said no meeting would be too small to record everything in minutes.

Some three or four years ago he made a nasty slur against his predecessor and used innuendo to the effect that records could have been disappeared and so on. He belatedly withdrew that statement two years later and said he should not have said it, even though the decision his predecessor took had 149 documents backing it up. The Taoiseach has said consistently that he wants the full minutes of everything that was discussed.

Can the Taoiseach explain why, at the meeting between him, the Minister for Justice and Equality, the Secretaries General of his Department and the Department of Justice and Equality and the Attorney General, the standards upon which he insisted were not met? Can he accept that his failure to ensure any record was kept leaves us a conflict of evidence, whereby a member of his party has said his evidence was fantasy? Surely that is a real step backwards rather than the proper reform which he advocated. Does the Taoiseach regret that no minutes were taken or record kept of what was an extremely important meeting, leading as it did to a commission of investigation having to be established? Mr. Justice Fennelly is absolutely scathing in his report about the absence of any record of the meeting. Does the Taoiseach apologise for no record being kept and regret the fact no minutes of meeting exist?

See this speech in context