Catherine Murphy (Kildare North, Independent) | Oireachtas source

I welcome the opportunity to contribute to this debate. In principle, I absolutely believe we need to separate politics from the appointment of the Garda Commissioner. I think a Member on the Government side outlined the fact there were 200 appointments, of which I was aware, but he said that of those 200, one pretty much takes the Garda Commissioner's list. That is all the more reason that separation should happen at that level. It should be a force or a service with people ending up in senior positions based on merit.

I was a little bit surprised by the tone of the contributions and by the similarity of some of them, which was striking. It almost seemed as if a press office document was issued and they were working from it. That is a pity because even if we disagree on what is in legislation, the spirit of debate should be better than that. One of the things we were told to avoid was group-think.

There is no doubt that Ireland has one of the most powerful Executive's in the democratic world when one examines the balance of power between the Parliament and the Executive, and that plays a part in this particular issue. Since our Constitution was decided on by the citizens, the Executive has had that grip which has tightened, if anything. This is one of the most heavily whipped Parliaments in the developed world. There is a core of 15 Ministers who wield extraordinary power and very often the feeling is that most of what happens in the Parliament is merely a rubber-stamping exercise, especially as the Government has such a large majority. Ministers of State have influence rather than power.

We must have proper checks and balances. The Executive has become the property of political parties and in public life those who display loyalty to a particular party get a reward. It does not have to be like that but that forms a part of this. I would like to see very significant Oireachtas reform where there is a break between the Executive and the Parliament. That is needed as part of what is suggested in this Bill, otherwise that rubber-stamping and majoritarianism will continue. The culture here must change. It must also change in the context of how the Garda Commissioner is to be appointed.

The appointment of senior gardaí is an area that needs to be re-examined. The link between Government and Garda Commissioner has been exposed as being fundamentally unhealthy. It was just unhealthy for the Garda Commissioner but it was also unhealthy for politics and for the Minister. The kind of information given to the Commissioner that was misused by the Minister on the airwaves demonstrated that.

In regard to reform, I was very interested in one of the papers given to the Constitutional Convention in regard to the reform of Westminster. A committee, for example, would have a function in scrutinising the Deputy Commissioner. However, we know the way our committees are formed. What was done in Westminster seemed to change the culture of the way its committee system worked. It seems to function quite well and it has been established since the late 1970s. They are genuinely committees of the Parliament and the chair is selected by secret ballot in each instance, which seems to give the chairs of those committees enhanced power by virtue of the fact it has changed the culture. There was a value in that for both the Government and opposition. That cultural shift is important and is needed before the change proposed here would be really effective.

The Guerin report stated that discipline was important. Discipline was not defined as just loyalty to the senior ranks in a very hierarchical organisation but was discipline in regard to the work at hand. Something fairly serious in my area, which I have been raising for some time, is the way gardaí are deployed. They are deployed in a very unfair way and there is no rationale as to the numbers in a given area. There are comparable areas where there are huge differences. How can we have that discipline if we cannot even make that change? It suited Governments, not necessarily this Government, that there were not big shifts in personnel because it might cause a problem for a particular constituency. That is part of the reason gardaí are deployed the way they are. That is an issue which needs to be addressed because it is one of discipline in the fullest meaning of the word.

I am very open-minded about the changes which will take place and I am certainly listening to what the Minister is saying. She is coming at this with a fresh pair of eyes.

What disappointed me following the election was that in spite of what was talked about in terms of the radical change that was going to happen, we only got fairly superficial change. I urge the Minister to go the whole hog with some of the initiatives she intends to take and not to row back and accept something that is less than the ideal. I support the principle of separating the roles, changing who appoints the Garda Commissioner and ensuring promotion is based on merit. I see no reason for the Bill not to be included in the mix of changes that will eventually deliver a better service and restore confidence in a service that requires a cultural shift. That could be helped by changing the culture at the top, because without doing so, people in the lower ranks will not have a chance to excel and to make the kind of changes within the force that it deserves and the citizens of the country deserve.

See this speech in context