Enda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael) | Oireachtas source

I thank the Deputy for his comments. On the previous occasion, we split these questions into Northern Ireland and issues related to the Prime Minister. Two of the 37 questions grouped together related to Ukraine and Russia and I did not refer to those in my reply. Perhaps I should have put those two as a subsection. As I have told the Deputy before, I am willing to have Taoiseach's Questions in a priority questions system for Deputies if they have a particular issue they wish to raise.

I had quite an emotional meeting with the people from Ballymurphy. They expressed their case with clarity on behalf of those who were shot and died at the scene or later. The effect was no different, in the sense of their being citizens, than those who lost loved ones in the Kingsmill massacre or the relatives of those who were killed at the cenotaph in Enniskillen. When one speaks to them all, irrespective of their background or their creed, the loss is the same. The young lad, who is now a an adult, obviously, told me that he saw half his father's head blown away while standing beside him. For him that is an end-of-life picture he will carry with him all the days of his life. The pain of those from Ballymurphy was palpable. There was a very emotional charge from them about the issue that arose over those few days.

I know Deputy Martin has visited Ballymurphy before. Deputy Adams has been there many times. It is my intention to visit the location with the relatives on the next occasion I go to Belfast. In the next few weeks we should have an opportunity to have an all-party motion about Ballymurphy. I presume there would be no disagreement on this as there was not with the Finucane case. We can draft that motion in consultation with the Opposition leaders. We should do this to show solidarity with the relatives. I was disappointed by the response of the British Secretary of State for Northern Ireland. It was not the full-blown Saville-type inquiry that was being sought here. It was not some sort of endless tribunal but a short-term limited analysis and investigation, as happened in the tragedy at the football match abroad a number of years ago. It may be possible to come back to that again.

In respect of Jean McConville, I agree with Deputy Martin's sentiments here. I will not stray into the area of Deputy Adams's arrest or the questions he was asked over the number of days he was in custody. Deputy Adams may wish to comment on that himself but I was struck by the argument, and the force of argument, of the McConville children. From my knowledge of the IRA and the way it operated when it was in existence in its cell formations, clearly somebody ordered that a number of men to go to the McConville dwelling, take out Jean McConville screaming in front of her family, abduct her, instruct that somebody drive her to a location and that there she be executed and buried. Her body was not found for very many years afterwards. That family was orphaned of their mother and the children were left in that sorry state and still bear that pain. I am quite sure information about Mrs. McConville's abduction and the ordering of her execution is more than likely available. It points out the difficulty and the complexity of dealing with issues of the past. This family deserves closure.

As I understand this, the number of people who have been questioned about this is six or seven - Deputy Adams will know that - and that one of those is being charged with conspiracy by association. Whether that moves through to the PPS to a further stage is something that I cannot predict. I think everybody in this country is haunted by the picture of Jean McConville and a number of her children - that black and white photograph - which has appeared thousands of times over the years. I know from meeting people who have lost loved ones at sea or whatever, through a tragedy or just an accident, that a sense of closure, not being able to say where they are and who was responsible and that justice be seen to be done is very powerful.

I agree with a comment made by Deputy Martin in regard to the Boston College tapes that there seems to be a sort of campaign that these are not valid, authentic or real contributions. Somebody who knows something about this said to me that some of the contributors were either dependant on alcohol or requiring of substance use all the time. I suppose the old saying in vino veritasis still valid. These are part of, and a background to, the problem we have with the past and the legacy of what that means. I share Uachtaráin Higgins's response, when commenting on this, I think, in Chicago, that nobody should be above law and that we cannot have one law for one and a different one for somebody else.

If the gardaí did not have the intelligence and communications they have available to them and the sharing of knowledge with the PSNI, this incident at Finnstown House recently could have been very serious, with the possibility of international repercussions for Ireland of the most serious kind, and the loss of life.

The issues arising over the last period in regard to the question of the past, parades and so on goes back to a comment made by the Tánaiste that there is a short opportunity after the electoral process is finished here and before the marching season gets into full swing in which we should perhaps refocus on what it is we may be able to do here. When I look at what is happening in Derry and I see the excitement, the expansion of the economy, the jobs being created and the view of the future where people really want to get on with the business of providing for their children, opportunities and so on, I see a difference between that and what is happening in places in Belfast. That is regrettable. I saw the television pictures, and Deputy Adams was involved. Perhaps there is an opportunity here to refocus, as two Governments, to help the Northern Ireland Executive and the parties in Northern Ireland. President Clinton said that we have to finish the job, it cannot be finished for them, it has got to come from inside and we have to give them all the encouragement we can.

I raised the question of the Pat Finuncane case again directly with the Prime Minister. He knows my very strong view on this and I said that to Pat Finucane's wife on a number of occasions. I know that people will say it is not just good enough to raise it. What else can one do here? Is there a facility that we can use or work with, perhaps to move this forward? These are serious matters and I would like to think that, in respect of Ballymurphy, we could frame a motion here which would be acceptable to everybody in the House in the next short period and have that debated.

In regard to the McConville murder, all I can say is that the information available now to the PPS and the people interviewed, and taking that against the background of these Boston College tapes, this may be progressed. I feel for and admire the courage of the McConville children who from their knowledge of so many years ago of the people who might have been involved gave that to the PSNI. I think that has been reflected by all parties. Anybody with information should do this.

I have spoken to Deputy Adams before about the disappeared and the best knowledge available to those who were involved in IRA activities at the time to pinpoint where the remains of those people are. Even after all the years, it brings a sense of closure to find those remains so that those who are left behind can actually say where they are.

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