Brian Stanley (Laois-Offaly, Sinn Fein) | Oireachtas source

I was flabbergasted by Deputy Mulherin's contribution. She wanted to know what role local authorities will have. Local authorities will be like subbies - subcontractors - with service level agreements. It will fulfil them for 12 years and they can be reviewed every two years. They will have little or no say and will be reduced to the role of subbies. As for the guarantees in regard to accountability, the time for them was when the legislation was going through the Chamber. Does Deputy Mulherin remember that she came in and voted for it? That was the time we were trying to get through 76 amendments to ensure there was some protection. The boat has been missed on that.

The more I hear about the establishment of Uisce Éireann, the more murky the water gets - pardon the pun. Having fobbed off questions from myself and others on the costs involved in setting up the company and denying he knew any of the financial details involved, it now turns out that the Minister, Deputy Hogan, was well aware of them, as was the Minister of State, Deputy O'Dowd. Not only does it transpire, as was confirmed at the meeting of the Joint Committee on the Environment, Culture and the Gaeltacht yesterday, that the Minister was aware for months of the costs and the overall budget, he was aware of the large sums to be dispensed to consultancy firms. He was also being presented with monthly accounts, months before I asked the Minister of State that question which he refused to answer. The Minister refused to answer several questions we asked in that regard. We got no answers from the Minister or the Minister of State. Why did they withhold that information from us and from the Dáil? I asked the Minister of State very straight questions, including how much it would cost to establish Irish Water, including wages. I asked how much it would cost for the contracting out of services. The Minister and the Minister of State had those figures, which are in this document. The date they got them is set out in the document but they would not tell me. Why was that?

I am an elected representative for Laoighis-Offaly and spokesperson for an Opposition party. Other spokespersons also demanded that information. Why did the Minister or the Minister of State not answer those straight questions? Last Sunday, the Minister of State said he had no knowledge of the €50 million spent on outside consultants. It turns out now that he had the knowledge all along, as did the officials. The Minister was notified of it and Mr. John Tierney confirmed that yesterday at the committee meeting.

Whatever about the Minister's lack of interest in the millions of euro of taxpayers' money on the basis that he does not micromanage such trivialities as €180 million, what about Joe and Mary Soap who will be asked to pay for something they have already paid for through general taxation, commercial water rates and the local government fund by way of car tax money? We know now that the charges will, in large part, pay for the consultants, without whom it appears Government Departments would not be able to find their way to work.

We are also entitled to answers in regard to the Government's claim that Uisce Éireann will result in annual savings of €2 billion. Is it €2 billion or €1.1 billion because the figure has changed three or four times in the past couple of days, depending on whether it is coming from Mr. John Tierney or the Minister? The Minister said €2 billion, the Taoiseach said €1.1 billion and Mr. John Tierney said €2 billion. It keeps changing. How can these savings be achieved given the massive structure the Minister is creating and the outlay of €180 million with not one pipe or one leak being fixed? More than €80 million of the €180 million will go to consultants. How will a macro-structure with an extra 510 staff to pad out a corporate entity, including setting up a massive call centre, be cheaper? Please tell me how because I cannot figure it out and I have asked the Minister.

My party's position all along has been that we do not need this new entity. We need reformed local authorities. Water should be retained under the democratic control of local authorities where local councillors, along with engineers, can make local water services plans and not just be told about them but be actively involved in making them. We accept the need to modernise the water supply and to tackle the issues of wastage and leaks and the need for water conservation and water harvesting but we do not accept the need for Uisce Éireann.

We are mindful of what happened to Bord Gáis when similarly established as a public company. Now it is being sold off and that is why I tabled amendments seeking to change the Bill to copperfasten it so this could not be sold off.

I would like to ask Fianna Fáil about its position because I am confused about it. However, there is no confusion that Fianna Fáil in its four year programme clearly set out that it would charge for water in 2012-13. It said that the Government would undertake an independent assessment of the transfer of responsibilities for water services provision from local authorities to a water utility and prepare proposals for implementation of this, as appropriate, with a view to start charging in 2012-13. The previous Government was in favour of a separate utility and charging in 2012-13. It was going to beat this Government to it. Those are the facts. We need to stop the madness.

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