Ruairi Quinn (Dublin South East, Labour) | Oireachtas source

If I may, I will address Deputy O'Donovan's comments first. In September 2011, a conference - its website was www.transitions.ie - examined the bridge between second and third levels. Three weaknesses were found. Two were on our side of the equation, as it were, and one was on the universities' side, namely, the 300% increase in offers for courses. Compared with ten years ago, the choices offered by a current CAO form have exploded. This is confusing for a 17 year old or 18 year old. Only 15% of such young people have a clear idea of what they want to do. It is an Aladdin's cave.

Subsequently, the universities undertook to consider simplifying or altering the process. This undertaking has been led by Professor Philip Nolan, president of the National University of Ireland, Maynooth. He hopes to report to me by the end of this calendar year.

On our side of the equation, the State Examinations Commission, SEC, is responsible for the formulation of exams, the questions and the marking system, which was held up as being rigid. Of the 14 different grades, at no stage in any answer is a pupil more than 2.5 points away from the grade above or below. If one mentions the right type of words in one's reply, one has ticked the box. It has come down to this level of artificial precision.

Another issue is the predictability of questions. Some teachers should work for Paddy Power. Using the pattern of past questions, they know that Heaney and Muldoon will come up and that the other eight poets on the list can be forgotten about.

With the universities, we have undertaken to do our part. We will remove the predictability. The matter is still under discussion and the Houses' committee may wish to debate it. I can arrange for someone to discuss it with Deputy O'Donovan. We will reduce the marking grade system from a grade ladder of 14 levels to perhaps seven and see how it works.

Regarding our engagement with teachers, they are a critical part of the education system, but they are not the total and exclusive group involved. Principals and deputy principals have a key role to play, as have the boards of management and the management bodies in terms of organisation and delivery. Parents are also involved at primary and post-primary levels. There must be a dialogue with all of the interested stakeholders.

We are moving cautiously and slowly to ensure that we get it right and in place in time. Some of the Deputies present are primary school teachers and know that it took approximately 20 years to change the old national school primary certificate examination. Most people, including foreigners in this country, accept that we have a top class curriculum for primary school children. They learn by discovery, as Deputy O'Brien knows from his fifth class daughter. Children cry about school these days, but only when they cannot go to school, not when they must go. This is a testimony to the curriculum compared with the old situation. We want to transfer, in so far as we can, the positive elements of this discovery away from rote learning and into the classroom.

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