Dinny McGinley (Donegal South West, Fine Gael) | Oireachtas source

Ba mhaith liom buíochas a thabhairt do na Teachtaí go léir a labhair ar an mBille seo ó thosnaíomar á phlé anseo. I thank the Deputies for their contributions to the debate and their support for this important legislation. The Minister and I have noted the points that have been raised and the Minister looks forward to discussing and teasing out the various issues raised with the Deputies on Committee Stage. I would, however, like to take this opportunity to make some preliminary responses in regard to a number of issues.

Deputy Niall Collins raised the issue of babysitters and childminders being exempt from vetting. In the discussions on Committee Stage this will need to be teased out. We need to consider the fact that many private child minding arrangements exist whereby people employ neighbours' children, family members, in-laws or nannies in the child's own home. There are also many formal and informal arrangements whereby people leave a child with a neighbour or a relative for child minding. At present, under the statutory Child Care (Pre-School Services) Regulations 2006, "A person carrying on a pre-school service shall ensure appropriate vetting of all staff, students and volunteers who have access to a child." The Bill will also create the requirement that childminders or nannies employed with an agency must be vetted by that agency, as this would fall within the definition of "employment" covered by the Bill. Any parent who wants to hire a childminder or nanny who is vetted can therefore do so through an agency. However, I pose the question whether it is appropriate or feasible for the State to extend this requirement and effectively to prevent parents from making their own arrangements for the care of their children. In preparing the Bill it was considered that this would be neither appropriate nor feasible.

I also want to refer to the issue of making vetting disclosures portable between jobs so that, as in the example given by Deputy Pringle, a person vetted to be a GAA volunteer would not have to submit a separate vetting application to apply to be a nurse. Similar points were made by a number of other Deputies. As Deputy O'Donovan pointed out, once there is any time lapse between two applications for two different jobs, any convictions incurred after the first application would not be contained in the vetting disclosure. There is therefore a very real danger posed to children or vulnerable persons by such an approach. Separately, I would like to add that this issue is much broader than is encompassed by the Bill. Portability of disclosures in the manner suggested would be contrary to the provisions of a broad range of existing Acts which require vetting at the time a person is being considered for appointment. The Bill does, however, make provision for each vetting applicant to be given a unique ID number.

This will then be used where duplicate vetting applications are received over time in respect of individuals. Instead of each application being treated as a new application, the previous vetting record will be used and any additional information that has arisen since the last application will be added to the disclosure. This is expected to significantly speed up the processing of repeat applications concerning the same individual.

In regard to the issue of solo practitioners in the arts, an issue raised by Deputy Halligan, the Bill provides that these solo practitioners can submit vetting applications through the organisation engaging their services - for example, a school or community organisation - or through an umbrella organisation which represents them for the purpose of vetting. CREATE Ireland represents persons in the arts for vetting purposes, but many vetting applications also come through schools, community organisations or colleges. It should also be borne in mind that under the provisions of the Bill, persons in the arts providing once-off or occasional services to schools or community organisations will not require vetting.

Deputy Murphy made the comment that we should not consider it valid to have a vetting system based on self-disclosure. This is a very important point. It is the reason the Bill does not provide for self-employed persons to be responsible for their own vetting. It is also the reason the Bill does not provide for persons to provide their own copy of a previous disclosure record to employers. Under the system we have at present, disclosures are issued by the Garda direct to the organisation seeking vetting.

The discussion this week has suggested that organisations might exchange vetting disclosures. The Bill does not make such a provision. It is considered that organisations would not, in many cases, be willing to do this. However, more importantly, under the provisions of the Data Protection Acts, personal data cannot be used for purposes that were not disclosed at the time that the data was obtained.

The Data Protection Acts already apply to the collation of criminal records data by the vetting unit. The Acts also apply to the collation of soft information in accordance the provisions of this Bill. The Data Protection Commissioner, therefore, has an inspection and oversight role in regard to the use of both the criminal records database and the soft information database which will be established under this Bill.

I should add that the reason there is no provision for the use of PPS numbers in regard to vetting is also because of data protection considerations. The use of PPS numbers in this way would be outside the scope of current legislation. In any case, because the Bill provides for the use of passport numbers and mother's maiden names, in addition to the usual information regarding identity, the vetting unit is satisfied that the use of PPS numbers would not be necessary.

The Minister is in full agreement regarding the suggestion of online vetting. Plans to introduce online vetting are in train with the national vetting unit. The Bill has been drafted to facilitate this development.

The Minister is very aware of the need to continue to ensure the bureau is satisfactorily resourced and the need for it to provide an efficient service. As the Minister acknowledged in his opening speech, the number of staff in the unit decreased by 20 between March and May this year as temporary staff contracts came to an end. This reduction in staff numbers has been partly offset by the redeployment of 15 clerical officers from the Department of Agriculture, Food and the Marine in May. The Minister is engaged in discussions with the Department of Public Expenditure and Reform to ensure adequate staffing to meet the new demands in the Bill and he will continue to ensure that this issue is prioritised.

In response to Deputy Healy's comments on re-vetting, I wish to advise the House that the intention is that re-vetting will commence once the retrospective vetting of teachers and health workers has been completed. It is sensible not to prioritise re-vetting of persons already vetted until everybody who requires vetting has been vetted at least once.

The Minister and I look forward to having further detailed discussion of these and other aspects of the Bill with the Deputies on Committee stage. As the Deputies will be aware, this Bill is an important part of a suite of legislation the Government is bringing forward in order to ensure that the rights of children and vulnerable persons are protected. The Criminal Justice (Withholding of Information on Offences Against Children and Vulnerable Persons) Act 2012 has already been passed by the Oireachtas. It makes it an offence for any person to fail to notify the Garda where a child or vulnerable person has been the victim of a serious offence. The Children First Bill 2012 will further enhance the protection of children by ensuring the HSE is informed about children at risk.

The wording of the proposed children's rights amendment was published this week. This will seek to enshrine in the Constitution key principles to protect children which will guide our legislation into the future. I commend the Bill to the House.

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