Mattie McGrath (Tipperary South, Independent) | Oireachtas source

I am also delighted to be able to make a contribution on this very important legislation. I commend the Government on introducing the Bill and the officials for drafting it. The process will not be easy but I hope there will be a good and fair discussion of the issues, as it behoves us all to ensure that none of those heinous crimes are ever perpetrated again. It is difficult to say "never" for anything but it is reasonable to introduce a vetting system that is transparent, in-depth and thorough. There will be no slipping through the net or similar failures to what have led to some of the most appalling cases, some of which have been referred to during the debate. We will never know about some of these cases because of the clandestine way in which the issues may have been dealt with over the years.

We have matured as a society over the past 20 years but there was a slowness in facing up to the problem and dealing with it adequately. Vulnerable children may have been in care because of a disability or an inability of a family to take care of them. Everyone believed these people were placed in trust but they found the trust placed in institutions was breached, with well-being violated. There have been cases in the sporting area down to the people's private homes, and some awful cases have been highlighted. I suppose it is easy to be wise in hindsight but I hope this new system will be rigorous and resistant to the serious and ingenious efforts of people with a certain failing that leads them to want to abuse or misuse another human being.

History has taught us that many of these people use subtle means, moving in on people's space to befriend them. These people can get into a position of trust to achieve easy prey, although that is probably a horrible term. Even worse, they seem to cajole or otherwise wiggle their way into the trust of boards and employment agencies in institutions.

This is more serious and it will take much legislation to deal with it. However, legislation can only do so much. It is about enactment and enforcement and those in trust and in governance of these places who must be ever vigilant 24-7 to ensure those entrusted into their care by the State are safe and able to live out their lives as best as possible in safety above all else. This is where I believe the legislation will help but what is important is its implementation and enactment. Vetting was introduced in recent years but it is not foolproof. To look at it simply and coldly, a local garda in a community knew everybody in the parish. Now, vetting is done by a national bureau. I am not criticising anybody working there but I question whether they are able to obtain accurate information. If you want to know me come and live with me, so if we do not know the person or the family how can we know the background?

This is a double-edged sword because we must endeavour to have the knowledge and proper references but we must also safeguard this knowledge and not allow it in any way to be misused or abused. The records of individuals, which I hope are accurate, cannot be used to damage anybody. They cannot be used to undermine the good name or character of the person. It is a very delicate issue both ways.

It is interesting that we are discussing the Bill as I have come from a briefing with the officials of the Minister for Children and Youth Affairs, Deputy Fitzgerald, on the proposed wording for the referendum on children's rights. We have moved on and I compliment the Minister, Deputy Fitzgerald, on this. I also compliment those who worked on it previously. It has been difficult to get to this stage and I hope we will get the wording right and that it will be satisfactorily adopted by the people whom we represent. I have not attended too many briefings but I thank all the officials in all Departments because I have found the briefings very helpful and much tedious work goes into them. To do or not to do, that is the question. How far do we go and what words and syllables should we use? Our Constitution is a delicate matter and changes to it are serious.

The Bill is long overdue and will receive support from all sides of the House. We can criticise previous Governments if we wish but none of us was quick enough to recognise what was going on. None of us can throw stones because we will have heard stories and anecdotes in our constituencies and we should have had a more listening ear. We should have had our antennae up much sooner and we should have ensured these things did not happen.

I have a concern about the Bill and I heard other Deputies referring to this also. What do we do with the sizeable cohort of people who are already in situ without vetting? They were never vetted because vetting did not take place. I am not casting aspersions on any of them but how can we be sure some undesirable people have not got through the net and are in positions of trust and, if they are that way inclined, might abuse children or adults? I suppose it is speaking about legislating retrospectively, but how can we ensure this deals with every person charged with the part-time or full-time safekeeping of vulnerable children and adults? We must also consider this matter. We cannot just close the door now; we must ensure safeguards exist for these people also. I do not know how we can deal with it. Yesterday, we spoke about penalty points on licenses. It is a simple matter to understand and better train ourselves as motorists not to receive penalty points. How can we out people in situations of trust who are not fit to be in such positions?

I welcome the efforts being made and add my support to them. However, I would like to tease out the issues further to find out how we can deal with people who are in the system who should not be. There are many good people in the system including foster and adoptive parents, social workers, the Garda Síochána, and hard-working people in front-line services trying to deal with many delicate issues. The Bill deals with ensuring new people coming into the system are vetted but how do we legislate for those already in the system?

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